HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[Erhaab]

I discovered this site and thread only yesterday, until such time I had been totally ignorant to the trouble I am in. I used Sanzar Partnership in 08/09 for several months. I recall receiving a requested to sign something declaring my involvement with the scheme mid 09 which I did. Since then I've heard nothing, I've not received any letters from HMRC regarding investigations or requests for payments but I'm no longer at the same address.

I don't doubt they'll be coming for me and I'm terrified. Why have I not been contacted? What if the letter just hasn't reached me? And what do I do if I end up owing tens of thousands? I simply don't have it.

I don't know what to do, where to start or who to go to for advice. Is contacting HMRC really stupid or really sensible at this point? Or is my first call to a tax specialist, and if so which? If Cobham Murphy, must this be by referral?

I'd really appreciate any advice anyone can give me, please please, please!

@Admin - could you please grant me PM rights?

Try logging on to the HMRC self assessment portal, select tax year 2008/2009 and see if they have re-calculated what tax they believe you owed for that year. A number of people on here have seen previous years' tax being recalculated on the SA portal ahead of receiving a DA notice.

[MrO666]

Try logging on to the HMRC self assessment portal, select tax year 2008/2009 and see if they have re-calculated what tax they believe you owed for that year. A number of people on here have seen previous years' tax being recalculated on the SA portal ahead of receiving a DA notice.

If you haven't received anything from HMRC relating to 08-09, then you're in the clear. Legally HMRC only had until April 2013 to issue any discovery assessments into that tax year, that is assuming you are all above board and didn't lie to them (in which case they have 6 years not 4).

If you get anything now (which you won't), you can with 100% certainty tell them to go away, as by HMRC's own laws, they are time barred.

This is all interesting stuff really. It's easy to say that HMRC will make everyone bankrupt, but I just can't see it. If....and it's a big if, HMRC get the powers they want, and that judicial review doesn't stop them, then this will be a situation like no other in the history of HMRC. They are clearly stretched to the limit as it is, so I'd like to see exactly how they think they will be able to effectively handle multiple correspondences from tax advisers for 65,000 cases.......it'll be such a shambles that I suspect it'll be all over the headlines.

Also, as for going back 15 years.........providing you didn't hide the fact that you were using a scheme, then I can't see how that's legal (in fact i'm sure it's not). Besides, as stated above, HMRC are absolutely drowning trying to deal with what's already on the table, they just haven't got the resources to take on anymore, and to be honest I don't think they're interested in doing so.

The main aim is to stop people using these schemes, so from that perspective I'd say they've been pretty successful. As for ruining people because they can't pay in one go, I don't think it'll happen. It wouldn't surprise me if special provisions were made in these cases to aid payment, after all, it costs HMRC to bankrupt somebody, so they're even worse off than when they started.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

It will be an omnishambles.

[Erhaab]

If you haven't received anything from HMRC relating to 08-09, then you're in the clear. Legally HMRC only had until April 2013 to issue any discovery assessments into that tax year, that is assuming you are all above board and didn't lie to them (in which case they have 6 years not 4).

If you get anything now (which you won't), you can with 100% certainty tell them to go away, as by HMRC's own laws, they are time barred.

This is all interesting stuff really. It's easy to say that HMRC will make everyone bankrupt, but I just can't see it. If....and it's a big if, HMRC get the powers they want, and that judicial review doesn't stop them, then this will be a situation like no other in the history of HMRC. They are clearly stretched to the limit as it is, so I'd like to see exactly how they think they will be able to effectively handle multiple correspondences from tax advisers for 65,000 cases.......it'll be such a shambles that I suspect it'll be all over the headlines.

Also, as for going back 15 years.........providing you didn't hide the fact that you were using a scheme, then I can't see how that's legal (in fact i'm sure it's not). Besides, as stated above, HMRC are absolutely drowning trying to deal with what's already on the table, they just haven't got the resources to take on anymore, and to be honest I don't think they're interested in doing so.

The main aim is to stop people using these schemes, so from that perspective I'd say they've been pretty successful. As for ruining people because they can't pay in one go, I don't think it'll happen. It wouldn't surprise me if special provisions were made in these cases to aid payment, after all, it costs HMRC to bankrupt somebody, so they're even worse off than when they started.

+1 M666, but if you're worried that a DA may have been sent to the wrong address (OP mentioned that they'd moved) then looking on the self assessment portal will let you know if HMRC believe you have tax outstanding for a prior year.

[terrythomas]

Group for SANZAR enquiries

Hi,

I see earlier in the thread (page 35) there was talk of setting up a private group for people getting HMRC grief due to using SANZAR services (for me I've used DarwinPay which I believe is the same people). Did this get created? I've looked to see if I can send a PM but after some searching, can't find a way to send one... Could someone please enlighten me?

Cheers

[ffrancis]

Try logging on to the HMRC self assessment portal, select tax year 2008/2009 and see if they have re-calculated what tax they believe you owed for that year. A number of people on here have seen previous years' tax being recalculated on the SA portal ahead of receiving a DA notice.

Thanks all for your responses.

It gets worse, I didn't complete a self assessment for 08/09. I had an email from Sanzar saying that I may not have to complete one, with a link to HMRC website (I still have it). I read the info but still wasn't sure so called Sanzar to check and they said I didn't need to. I'm so naiive. So now it appears I may be in even more trouble as I didn't fill out a self assessment for that year.

The first time I submitted anything was when I was sent a form to complete declaring my involvement, I think that may have gone back to Sanzar to send to HMRC. I guess that means they have 6+ years not 4, which may explain why I've not yet received the letter??

If I contact Contractor Helpdesk, could they be obliged to inform HMRC? Do I risk giving them my full contact details?

[MrO666]

Thanks all for your responses.

It gets worse, I didn't complete a self assessment for 08/09. I had an email from Sanzar saying that I may not have to complete one, with a link to HMRC website (I still have it). I read the info but still wasn't sure so called Sanzar to check and they said I didn't need to. I'm so naiive. So now it appears I may be in even more trouble as I didn't fill out a self assessment for that year.

The first time I submitted anything was when I was sent a form to complete declaring my involvement, I think that may have gone back to Sanzar to send to HMRC. I guess that means they have 6+ years not 4, which may explain why I've not yet received the letter??

If I contact Contractor Helpdesk, could they be obliged to inform HMRC? Do I risk giving them my full contact details?

My advice (for what it's worth) would be to do nothing. If your online portal shows no assessment, then keep your mouth shut. Why would you go looking for trouble so to speak.

It's down to HMRC to contact you if they have an issue, not the other way around

[varunksingh]

My advice (for what it's worth) would be to do nothing. If your online portal shows no assessment, then keep your mouth shut. Why would you go looking for trouble so to speak.

It's down to HMRC to contact you if they have an issue, not the other way around

And along with that start saving left, right and center. It will not be pretty IF and when HMRC knocks. Pray for the best i.e. HMRC does nothing but prepare for the worst. I think HMRC can force Sanzar to give them a full list of people who used their scheme. And I guess in your case HMRC can go back 20 years.

[jbryce]

And along with that start saving left, right and center. It will not be pretty IF and when HMRC knocks. Pray for the best i.e. HMRC does nothing but prepare for the worst. I think HMRC can force Sanzar to give them a full list of people who used their scheme. And I guess in your case HMRC can go back 20 years.

There is no Sanzar to force to do anything, they were liquidated a long time ago.

As an aside, would Sanzar not have informed HMRC of all users of their scheme at the time?

[creativity]

There is no Sanzar to force to do anything, they were liquidated a long time ago.

As an aside, would Sanzar not have informed HMRC of all users of their scheme at the time?

Don't do anything. As soon as you do HMRC will request all loan amounts and details of the scheme after sending an assessment of taxed owed based on the PAYE you did pay. I have the calculation they use but not at hand, I requested the calculation when they made an assessment on me for 09/10 in which I used Sanzar for 12 weeks. It's a low amount so used that year as a guinea pig to ask HMRC some questions rather than hand it all to CM.

I got the impression HMRC wont close any assessment until the loan amounts are documented (so an accurate calculation) hence why they keep reiterating to me to send them the loan amounts with each correspondence - I haven't obliged as that information had already been disclosed via the P11d.