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HMRC Enquiry letters on Loans from EBT and other schemes

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    Originally posted by cojak View Post
    You need to read the rest of what DR said as well. HMRC will continue with their demands irrespective of what you think. You can't rely on this, you will need a legal representative to defend you in court if necessary.
    HMRC litigate these type of mass marketed schemes through a handful of test/lead cases.

    Only those taxpayers selected as test cases will need full legal representation.

    Will they select test cases for each variant of the scheme (by promoter)? Don't know.
    Are all the schemes structurally similar enough that they will just lump them all together? Don't know.

    The ideal scenario is where the promoter defends the scheme and appoints (pays for) legal representation.

    Where that is not the case, for whatever reason, then taxpayers selected as test cases would be left to fend for themselves. This is not good for anyone else in the scheme whose fate also depends on the outcome.

    Whether you use Michael, another advisor or do it yourselves, you are going to need as many people as possible contributing to a fighting fund to pay for decent representation if this goes to tribunal.

    Comment


      Just out of interest. If I fund my own professional representation and win at a Tribunal, do HMRC pay my costs?

      Comment


        GET REAL!

        Originally posted by DonkeyRhubarb View Post
        HMRC litigate these type of mass marketed schemes through a handful of test/lead cases.

        Only those taxpayers selected as test cases will need full legal representation.

        Will they select test cases for each variant of the scheme (by promoter)? Don't know.
        Are all the schemes structurally similar enough that they will just lump them all together? Don't know.

        The ideal scenario is where the promoter defends the scheme and appoints (pays for) legal representation.

        Where that is not the case, for whatever reason, then taxpayers selected as test cases would be left to fend for themselves. This is not good for anyone else in the scheme whose fate also depends on the outcome.

        Whether you use Michael, another advisor or do it yourselves, you are going to need as many people as possible contributing to a fighting fund to pay for decent representation if this goes to tribunal.
        I agree completely with DK who has made some very important and pertinent comments.

        Contractors should now concentrate on dealing correctly with the immediate practical problems and prepare in advance for what is to come from HMRC, according to their tried and tested way of doing things, as in countless other cases before these. Their actions are predictable to the tax professional but may come as a shock if you have no clue about what to expect next!

        Comment


          Originally posted by convict View Post
          Just out of interest. If I fund my own professional representation and win at a Tribunal, do HMRC pay my costs?
          That is a very good question. In civil proceedings in the higher courts that would be the case but I don't know about first-tier and upper tribunal.

          An even bigger question would be - if you lose, do you have to pay HMRC's costs?

          Comment


            Originally posted by DonkeyRhubarb View Post
            That is a very good question. In civil proceedings in the higher courts that would be the case but I don't know about first-tier and upper tribunal.

            An even bigger question would be - if you lose, do you have to pay HMRC's costs?
            HM Revenue & Customs: Appealing to the tribunal

            Suitably vague

            Cost of appealing
            Generally, each person will pay their own costs when appealing, for example the costs of accountant’s fees. But if any person acts unreasonably during the proceedings, the tribunal can order them to pay the other person’s costs.
            There are also special rules for costs in complex cases.
            For more information about costs, see the Tribunals Service website

            Comment


              Originally posted by convict View Post

              Further searching led me to ARTG8660 - First-tier and Upper Tribunals: The tribunal hearing: Tribunals right to award costs
              so the answer is a reserved yes, they can award/impose costs.

              Comment


                Originally posted by LandRover View Post

                “All that is needed is that, from the information made available to the hypothetical officer, he can reasonably be expected to be aware of the insufficiency of tax such as to justify an assessment.”.

                HMRC’s appeal was dismissed.

                http://www.tribunals.gov.uk/financea...d-corfield.pdf
                I like this. As one of the BN66ers who not only had retrospective legislation to deal with, but also enquiries opened after the window, this could come in very handy at tribunal.

                Comment


                  letter lost in post ?

                  Hi

                  I am potentially on the hit list but have not received a letter. Do the letters come recorded delivery and how would the 30 days notice be affected by lost in the post (or sent to old address ) ?

                  PS. My scheme provider phoned me up to ask if I had received such a letter.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by stephen_zz View Post
                    Hi

                    I am potentially on the hit list but have not received a letter. Do the letters come recorded delivery and how would the 30 days notice be affected by lost in the post (or sent to old address ) ?

                    PS. My scheme provider phoned me up to ask if I had received such a letter.
                    No don't be silly mine anyway was sent 2nd class !

                    30 days effective from date of notice.

                    I would suggest logging into HMRC Self Assessment website (if that's how you submit) and you will be able to see details there - I learned mine was coming b4 it arrived so avoided a nasty shock when opening the envelope.

                    Comment


                      What I would do

                      I've been giving some thought as to what I would do if I was in your position.

                      In order of preference:
                      1. If the scheme promoter is still around, and committed to defending the scheme at no cost to you, then I would stick with them. This seems like a no brainer to me.
                      2. If the promoter is charging clients to defend them, this is less clear cut. I would want an idea of how much it could cost. If it was reasonable then I'd still stick with them, even though I think it's an imposition having to pay when you've already forked out hefty fees to use the scheme.
                      3. If the promoter is referring people to a 3rd party like Tax Talk UK, then I'd probably go with this if the costs were reasonable.
                      4. Failing all of the above, I would probably go with Michael J Perry. He's taken the initiative and has already got some momentum going. The more people who join him the more the costs of any litigation can be pooled. This is what it's all about - strength/safety in numbers and having a decent fighting £fund.

                      I would also keep this thread going and urge you to stay in contact with each other.

                      I hope you never have to go as far as we have in the BN66 camp but you never know what stunts HMRC may pull further down the line.

                      I wish you all the best.

                      DR

                      Comment

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