The Times on Saturday 12th May

[Iliketax]

Just realised the article quotes HMRC as claiming ‘no one will be driven to bankruptcy’ . That’s an incredibly bold claim but I suppose they mean ‘by them’ whereas in reality a huge number will be forced to ‘choose’ bankruptcy. Otherwise I guess some extraordinarily long TTP agreements are going to have to be agreed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...further-update

Impact on individuals, households and families

This package is not expected to have a material impact on family formation, stability or breakdown.

The disguised remuneration package is expected to affect up to 40,000 individuals who have entered into disguised remuneration avoidance schemes. This measure will also affect individuals who are self-employed and trading on their own account or through a partnership and have entered into disguised remuneration avoidance schemes. The measure is expected to affect up to 10,000 self-employed individuals who have entered into disguised remuneration avoidance schemes.

Some of these individuals will be unable to repay the loans, agree a settlement with HMRC before 5 April 2019, or pay the loan charge arising on 5 April 2019. The government anticipates that some of these individuals will become insolvent as a result.

[phil@pmtc]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...further-update

Ta, i've seen that previously. Not sure how they can possibly now claim that bankruptcy isn't going to occur? Really, am I missing something here?

The first sentence is interesting also, they should prob speak to some of the people I speak to and see if that changes their opinion.

[Loan Ranger]

Ta, i've seen that previously. Not sure how they can possibly now claim that bankruptcy isn't going to occur? Really, am I missing something here?

Insolvency and bankruptcy are different words.

[MayMadness]

If they are commenting that this will not have a social or emotional impact on people...then they are already gearing up to dismiss letters from individuals that state otherwise. I imagine that their line of defence is...there is no 'evidence' that the Loan charge has impacted people emotionally, physically or socially (families) because there is 1. no base line to determine what life was like prior to the Loan charge. 2. It (the heart attack, divorce etc) may have happened anyway. There is nothing directly linking the Loan Charge to your emotional, physical or social suffering. Are they right?

Hence.... the following may wish to be considered.

1. Institutions such as Businesses (We from *** Tax group have collectively noticed the Loan charge has impacted our Clients) or even as professional individuals from a particular field need to write about what they are experiencing from there clients and whether or not bankruptcies will occur or not.

2. Have friends and family write letters on how they are impacted. (If possible, even ask ex partners)

3. Have friends and family write letters on how you were as a person before the Loan Charge and How you are acting, feeling, interacting now.

4. Contacting charities such as mentioned on here regarding debt help or even The Samaritans will log what people have been asking about. Such as suicide, depression, self harm. They will keep data on that. If a bunch of people are suddenly contacting them about a specific issue..that can be later used as evidence.


Letters to MP's and and complaints to HMRC need to ask what evidence does HMRC have to support their statement about impact.

Letters need to come in mass that call into question HMRC's statement above. Who knows...they may be correct. The only way anyone is going to know different is if people write and visit MP's and raise complaints against HMRC. They need numbers. If this can get publicity in a positive light like Windrush...all the better

MM

[jrock]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/news...n-contractors/

[MayMadness]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/news...n-contractors/

Thank you for this.
I do not know whether the following link would help people write in about their experience and asking for it to be investigated further.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/contact-us/editorial/

I would also suggest, writing to Telegraph, Guardian or any other news outlet you deem fit. This would be a similar letter that you would to HMRC and MP's. Again...let them know in detail your suffering and if fitting...how you first got involved.

For instance, in our situation we had contacted HMRC and several accounting professionals and was given the clear from all of them.

I would say the BBC but not sure how receptive they would be.

[Togoodtobetrue]

Sam Meadows of Telegraph thinks loan schemes were in use in the 90’s!

He needs to have a look around at what’s happening now as they are still very much in use.

[MayMadness]

Sam Meadows of Telegraph thinks loan schemes were in use in the 90’s!

He needs to have a look around at what’s happening now as they are still very much in use.

Perhaps we need engage in a collective 'history/Myth' session.

In our experience...We were told that the schemes were originally put in place by Thatcher's govt in the 80's. And were used by a select group of people but grew as word got out and nature of employment changed or vice versa for the latter. At any rate, this came from various authoritarian sources that were initially contacted and amongst fellow contractors at that point in time. Perhaps this is all BS but...

Is there anyway that he could investigate that and the legislation?

and just us importantly....what were others told?

Anyone interested in sharing on or off the forum? This may be very very important to show that there is a shared common experience that can not be put down to 'ahh, you were just greedy'. Those stories really need to be heard.

[GreenMirror]

Sam Meadows of Telegraph thinks loan schemes were in use in the 90’s!

He needs to have a look around at what’s happening now as they are still very much in use.

The LC goes back to 1999. Hence HMRC were aware of schemes back in 1999. And there are still victims being suckered in every day.

[me206et]

The LC goes back to 1999. Hence HMRC were aware of schemes back in 1999. And there are still victims being suckered in every day.

As with most people we were sucked in when ir35 first came in and screwed up running your own co. Even my account went out of business.

I am sure part of the original sales pitch was that some MPs were using loan schemes pre 1999. Unfortunately I cannot find this info. Seems to me it would explain the timing of this, 20 years later....