Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[interestedparty]

I agree, luxCon. Sadly, I think I'm not the only one who has paid back loans from 2003 unnecessarily. I was quick off the mark when the legislation was being finalised. I sought advice from an IP and was told to find out my likely tax liability. I dealt directly with HMRC and received a threatening letter that I would have to pay all loans back from 2003 to the end date. (I think the end date at that time was 2013.) I was given an HMRC estimate of how much I owed in outstanding loans. I began the repayment process. I was advised to repay the oldest loans first as they would suffer the largest interest charge. When I'd repaid up to 2010 the revised legislation came into force. I was stuffed! I've paid back loans no longer in scope and run out of money for any repayment for 2013 onwards. Is stupidity a defence to HMRC?

The only reason I got into these schemes in the first place was that in 2002 I declared at year end that I may be within IR35. I'd already declared and paid dividends and these were then taxed twice: once as dividend and once as income. No matter how I pleaded with HMRC their attitude was 'you've been a disguised employee for years', no sympathy, no repayment, no apology only o/s debt demands!

Hi, just to clarify: are you saying that you repaid the loans, or the HMRC calculation of the tax due on the loans? In other words, did you repay the loans to Glen Mae/Procorre, or the tax due to HMRC?

[Netherton Nick]

Hi, just to clarify: are you saying that you repaid the loans, or the HMRC calculation of the tax due on the loans? In other words, did you repay the loans to Glen Mae/Procorre, or the tax due to HMRC?

Interestedparty, thanks for your interest. I contacted all trusts I'd ever received loans from, and any other organisation that might be in scope, to get the true value of outstanding 'loans'. I then paid back the trusts themselves thereby clearing all outstanding loans. Glen May insisted it was not a loan scheme so no possible tax liability. Other organisations did the same. It is hard to pay back a loan when its value is not known or even recognised as such by the 'loaner'. So couldn't pay Glen May. I would need some payee account and acceptance that 'the loan' has been paid back. I have never heard of Procorre. I lost my email address on which Glen May used to contact me. It was an Orange email. Orange decided to terminate for every user in 2017. So, it's possible Glen May could have been trying but unable to contact me about a change of mind on being a loan scheme. I only discovered that this may be the case on this forum a few days ago when I registered.

The panic only started a few days ago!

[DealorNoDeal]

I dealt directly with HMRC and received a threatening letter that I would have to pay all loans back from 2003 to the end date.

I could understand HMRC leaning on someone to settle (ie. pay tax on the loans). But I can't understand why they would pressure someone to repay them to the scheme lender.

Repaying the loans is not a great option.
1) it doesn't necessarily remove any tax liability, which would have been triggered at the time the loans were received
2) it will cost more to repay a loan than to pay tax on it

[Netherton Nick]

I could understand HMRC leaning on someone to settle (ie. pay tax on the loans). But I can't understand why they would pressure someone to repay them to the scheme lender.

Repaying the loans is not a great option.
1) it doesn't necessarily remove any tax liability, which would have been triggered at the time the loans were received
2) it will cost more to repay a loan than to pay tax on it

Thanks DealorNoDeal. Seems like I made a bad choice.

Answering 'why did you do that?' questions to others (who may be HMRC or psychiatrists) about my earlier posts hasn't got me anywhere. So, this may be goodbye to this forum.

I came on to find out from others how they found out that Glen May Llp was in scope and when that was and what options were made available to them. Somewhere along the line communications between Glen May Llp and myself stopped. I did a google search for Glen May and HMRC and found this forum only a few days ago.

Access to the WhatsApp group may have given me what I was looking for and perhaps something more, perhaps some help. I'll read through the 40+ pages on this thread again.

All too late now, what's done's done.

[Smurfburger]

Also was with Glen May LLP

Extremely late in the day I discover I am in this as well. I was assured that Glen May was not a loan scheme so outside of scope of the legislation. That satisfied me and I haven't done anything about it since.

I'm not sure what help I can get now.

Most posts seem to ask for PM rights and membership of a WhatApp group.

So, Admin , could I have PM rights please

And if anyone can tell me where I go from there I'd appreciate it

I was with Glen May between 2012/13 - 2016/17. In 2019 I wrote to the compliance team to ask if I needed to declare any amounts as Loan Charge relevant and they said their tax counsel had confirmed that no loan payments were made. As such, there is no need to declare anything.

I have paid the tax on all of the profit share I have been told to declare in the partnership pages.

Yesterday, I received a Check of Self Assessment for 2018/19. The letter simply states that they think I should have declared the use of a tax avoidance scheme. It seems to be a fishing type letter. I have replied and asked them to be specific about the scheme(s) to which they refer since I feel my 2018/19 return was correct.

I would be keen to be added to the WhatsApp group if it is still running.

[interestedparty]

I was with Glen May between 2012/13 - 2016/17. In 2019 I wrote to the compliance team to ask if I needed to declare any amounts as Loan Charge relevant and they said their tax counsel had confirmed that no loan payments were made. As such, there is no need to declare anything.

I have paid the tax on all of the profit share I have been told to declare in the partnership pages.

Yesterday, I received a Check of Self Assessment for 2018/19. The letter simply states that they think I should have declared the use of a tax avoidance scheme. It seems to be a fishing type letter. I have replied and asked them to be specific about the scheme(s) to which they refer since I feel my 2018/19 return was correct.

I would be keen to be added to the WhatsApp group if it is still running.

And so would I, please?

[webberg]

I was with Glen May between 2012/13 - 2016/17.,,,, and they said their tax counsel had confirmed that no loan payments were made. .

Unless you have that advice - in writing - directly from Counsel to you, considering your circumstances, that view is of very limited use.

You should ask to see that advice and the questions that were asked.

[DCContract]

I was with Glen May between 2012/13 - 2016/17. In 2019 I wrote to the compliance team to ask if I needed to declare any amounts as Loan Charge relevant and they said their tax counsel had confirmed that no loan payments were made. As such, there is no need to declare anything.

I have paid the tax on all of the profit share I have been told to declare in the partnership pages.

Yesterday, I received a Check of Self Assessment for 2018/19. The letter simply states that they think I should have declared the use of a tax avoidance scheme. It seems to be a fishing type letter. I have replied and asked them to be specific about the scheme(s) to which they refer since I feel my 2018/19 return was correct.

I would be keen to be added to the WhatsApp group if it is still running.

Who did you write to? Did you go direct to the Team 50, Counter-Avoidance address? I don't actually have any glen may records so I'm not sure what I would owe even if there was anything owing. Are they still operational? I received a "You have not paid what you owe" letter today but it's so unspecific, it's hard to work out what do.

[Joby]

Yet another question...

...from a loan charge perspective, how are overdrawn capital account payments taxed? I see lots of correspondence that talks about "the balance of loans outstanding" but how does that apply to overdrawn capital accounts? Is it the sum total of the payments made or the balance of the overdrawn capital account?

[Joby]

What is...

...this PM rights that people seem to be referring to?