To lurkers everywhere

[jbryce]

HMRC can pick us off one by one. However, within a group, it is much harder.
I would be happy as f*** if all of this just went away, but it won't. It will drag on until such time as HMRC issue closure notices for the years in question.

Give someone you love (being a contractor that 'someone' will be you) membership of BigGroup. A place where there is a reasonable settlement under discussion.

Start 2017 moving forward instead of waiting for HMRC to stick it up you.

[allbutbankrupt]

The issue of closure notices is interesting which presumably they could do for open years?

If HMRC issue a closure notice to a member, or even a few members in a specific scheme (sub group), would BG defend that in a Tribunal? If you are in a small sub group in BG where would the funding come for defence - would everyone from all other sub groups be expected to chip in?

[cojak]

To lurkers everywhere

I think that BG is focusing on a fair settlement for all joiners* rather than defending schemes.

(*at least until 7/1/17)

[allbutbankrupt]

I think that BG is focusing on a fair settlement for all joiners* rather than defending schemes.

(*at least until 7/1/17)

They may be, and no doubt HMRC will be focusing on a fair settlement for them. But the OP raises an interesting point, whether he intended to or not. Whether settlement is (ignoring the terms of the same here), for contractors a sensible if undesirable outcome, what happens if HMRC issue said closures? The question is reasonable.

[jbryce]

I think that BG is focusing on a fair settlement for all joiners* rather than defending schemes.

(*at least until 7/1/17)

I have no intention of defending the tax arrangements I entered into, rather I would seek a fair settlement with HMRC. If you have any specific questions contact webberg.

[cojak]

I have no intention of defending the tax arrangements I entered into, rather I would seek a fair settlement with HMRC. If you have any specific questions contact webberg.

My response wasn't for you but for allbutbankrupt JB.

[jbryce]

My response wasn't for you but for allbutbankrupt JB.

Yup - so was mine - I was just trying to reinforce your point!
Merry Xmas Cojak

[webberg]

I think Mr Bankrupt, you have misunderstood what a closure notice is (with respect).

The process is usually as follows.

You submit a tax return or HMRC discover that you were part of a contractor "scheme".

HMRC asks questions about your involvement and you reply/ignore them.

HMRC reaches a point of deciding that your income from said scheme is under reported and raises some form of tax charge.

You appeal that charge.

More questions from HMRC.

You and HMRC may come to an amicable (or other) settlement.

If not, you need to argue the matter before a Tribunal Judge.

In order to start that process, you need HMRC to issue a closure notice which should (but usually doesn't) set out clearly why HMRC has raised an assessment.

The Tribunal process is then based on the validity of the argument in the closure notice as developed and expanded in Court.

So, the closure notice is an important step in the process but is not the terminal event.

[allbutbankrupt]

With the greatest respect Mr Webberg I do understand what a closure notice is and the general course of events you outlined, but don't see why you thought the thread warranted an explanation of that.

However, it is helpful because it acknowledges that a settlement (at least on palatable terms) is still not a foregone conclusion at this point in time and a closure notice remains a possibility - if you don't agree with the OP perhaps educate him not me.

So as the OP points out, let's say you haven't got agreement for a settlement yet with HMRC and they serve a closure notice to an individual member in BG. Referring to your outline, this has to be defended in a Tribunal. This costs money right, a really large lot of it, to pay Solicitors and Barristers?

So the question was reasonably clear; if such an event occurs will BG, or has BG considered how it will defend it?

As I understand it from the website BG is made up members of a large number of different contractor schemes no doubt with varying numbers of members from each scheme.

If a member who is part of a specific scheme gets hit with a closure notice then how would the defence of that be financed?

Does any sub group have sufficient numbers to do that? Or would all members of BG as a whole be expected to contribute to the Tribunal costs; even if any positive outcome may not benefit them personally in the long run.

BTW you don't have to wait for HMRC to issue a closure notice - you can apply to the tribunal yourself?