Joint action on APN

[EBTContractor]

Having said that, I'd fall off my chair if there ever was an amnesty.

Tax amnesty has been offered in many countries where similar scare tactics have been used and failed because the vast majority of people don't easily fall prey to bullying.

I know I am right about the EBT malarkey, HMRC thinks I am wrong, so let's meet in the middle and call it 50%, then both parties walk away somewhat happy.

[neil99]

Tax amnesty has been offered in many countries where similar scare tactics have been used and failed because the vast majority of people don't easily fall prey to bullying.

I know I am right about the EBT malarkey, HMRC thinks I am wrong, so let's meet in the middle and call it 50%, then both parties walk away somewhat happy.

I was having an imaginary conversation with the Chancellor yesterday. What's the sense in bankrupting a lot of well paid professionals who in future will pay a considerable amount of tax but won't be able to earn if their credit ratings are decimated (credit checks common for whichever roles I apply for).

[BrilloPad]

I was having an imaginary conversation with the Chancellor yesterday. What's the sense in bankrupting a lot of well paid professionals who in future will pay a considerable amount of tax but won't be able to earn if their credit ratings are decimated (credit checks common for whichever roles I apply for).

Why speak to the Chancellor? He just does what HMRC tell him to.

[lilikins1]

No response yet. I'm seeing them tomorrow afternoon.

The article is a re-hash of several that have been doing the rounds in the past 6 to 8 months (indeed I wrote and had published something similar last August if you want to see it).

The core theme is that it's time for HMRC/HMG to announce an amnesty for all tax avoidance ON REASONABLE TERMS.

If you take it and abandon litigation it helps everybody.

If not, then look out for the kitchen sink.

I'll share some possible "progress" on that on a separate thread - don't go thinking that it's likely immediately post election but there are the faintest signs of reasonableness creeping into some fringe areas of HMRC.

How the first batch of APN s to the poor NTRT guys will play a role on whether they think an amnesty is an option

[webberg]

Today I spoke with Pinsent Mason and a QC who has had several mentions in the forum.

PM say that a joint action against APN is possible, but that would have to be outside the JR system. They say perhaps a Private Members bill or some form of class action. The latter is not a feature of UK law and thus would have to be EU driven. Finding grounds is a challenge.

The cost is unlikely to be less than £200,000.

Chances of getting 200 people to pay £1k each = low.
Chances of getting 1,000 people to pay £200 each = low

I conclude therefore that the prospect of joint action across groups is a hopeless project.

The QC was interesting. The case we took to him was "hopeless" but raised some interesting side issues. I'm thinking through some of those to see if they might apply here.

In particular, he said that if some taxpayers had had a position agreed and others were being challenged, there is a possible case there for rejecting HMRC's argument. Where there are hundreds of potential claims for tax and just a few have fallen through the administrative net, the case is weaker. Not sure if it's possible to do a calculation of who participated, who has been agreed and who is under enquiry? I imagine that those who have got away with no enquiry are keeping their heads down!

[StrengthInNumbers]

If that help many are around including my self where some year enquiry is open but other years not.

[webberg]

If that help many are around including my self where some year enquiry is open but other years not.

That's a slightly different point unfortunately.

The situation we're looking at is where a claim for relief or non taxable income has been examined and specifically allowed.

Where an enquiry has not been opened due to administrative incompetence, it is confined to individuals and cannot be applied across all individuals who took part in the scheme.

If you like we're looking at an error of commission (i.e. we've looked and found nothing wrong), rather than an error of omission (i.e. we forgot to look).

The former is a potentially useful tool for groups, whereas the latter is not.

[foobar]

Judicial Review - APNs

Hi all - Last week I was in contact with Jason Collins at Pinsent Masons.

I enquired about the possibility being party to similar JR proceedings like Ingenious as part of a wider action against APNs.

Jason asked for more details about the scheme (Edge/EBTs) and I will keep all updated with any news but it ended there.

APNS are coming and you have 90 days to pay UNLESS you are party to a JR. Just because there are other JR's going for other schemes does not mean a thing to HMRC - They will send you an APN regardless so you must prepare. I buried my head in the sand for too long with this...

I thought of settling to 'make this go away' but the problem with these powers to issue APNs is that HMRC will be back again and again - How long before they rule that those in limited coys, with cash ISAs or simply bought duty free somewhere have 'avoided' and need to 'pay first' ? I believe APNs belong in North Korea and that to settle is to accept the intolerable injustice of retrospective taxation and that is not the right thing to do. </rant>

Time is of the essence - Organising ourselves and working together makes sense. I hear murmurings of sub groups planning JRs - Wouldn't it better if these groups worked together to split costs?

I am admittedly a case of Johnny-come-lately to the party but if I don't hear back from Pinsent Masons, can anyone point me to a JR to join up with still accepting latecomers.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

APN judicial review for contractors

I hear something may be in the pipeline so keep an eye on these forums in the next week or so.

[webberg]

I hear something may be in the pipeline so keep an eye on these forums in the next week or so.

I also hear rumours to this effect.

If HMRC were a joined up organisation with relatively efficient internal communications, a sensible policy that applies to all and is not subject to interference at local level, transparent objectives and people who actually care about what they do (as opposed to why they do it), then they would announce a freeze on new APN's being issued until they have solved the JR.

Unfortunately they are none of the above.

There is evidently no appetite between schemes for a jointly funded JR of wide application across many schemes. Therefore each scheme/individual has to take action on their own.

All this does is slow the machine. It does not cause the machine to stop, nor be permanently turned off.

Frustrating as it is, in the absence of a unifying force here, look after yourselves as best you can.