House or a flat

[edison]

Hey dudes

What's more practical for a family with a toddler: a house or a flat and why. This is fairly central London we are talking about, so size-wise flats ate OK, while houses lack gardens and bedrooms but have the upstairs

What part of central London are you taking about? Zone 1? Are you thinking of buying or renting? Staying long term or short to medium term? There are some fundamental things you need to consider first before what type of property it is IMHO, in particular schooling.

I owned a flat in Belgravia SW1 before I got married and we had our first child there until she was almost a year old. It was fantastic location as a single man or just with the missus. It was an ex-council flat but just 300 yards from us were houses that were anywhere from £5-50 million. Therein lies one major problem . Most of the people in 'super prime' locations like Kensington and Belgravia will be very affluent to say the least. They will send their kids to private schools and the local state schools aren't that great typically. A friend of my wife was a teacher nearby in Pimlico and she said a lot of the kids came from areas like Lambeth and Brixton rather than lived locally. Central London can be a very transient place with people coming to live for a few years then moving. It can be difficult to develop long term relationships with other young families.

Nursery care is astronomical. I don't think you'll get much change from £80-100 a day per child for nursery from what I hear. I've got a friend in Chiswick (affluent but not in the same league as SW1 and he pays about £180 a day for two kids.)

I doubt you would be able to buy a decent 2 bed flat in central London for less than £600k. Even my 2 bed ex-council flat is getting on for £450k today.

And if you want a house, you can practically forget it unless you have very deep pockets indeed - a three bed house in central London isn't going to be much less than a £1m.

Any particular reason you are looking at central London as a place to raise a young family? If I was to move back to central London, I would maybe think about moving a bit towards the East - it's cheaper and the cultural axis of London has been shifting that way for quite a while.

Alternatively why not live just outside London? All the benefits of London not too far away and for a fraction of the price. I live in Hertfordshire and the equivalent of my house near where I used to live is about £2 million now...

I'm not sure a central London lifestyle is compatible with being an IT contractor unless you are on £1000-1500/day

[SueEllen]

I'm not sure a central London lifestyle is compatible with being an IT contractor unless you are on £1000-1500/day

Even if you are on that amount wouldn't it be better to bring you kid up in the home counties in a place where the likelihood of meeting people who don't give a damn about their kids up bringing is dramatically decreased regardless of the amount of money they have.

[mudskipper]

A house is definitely a much better investment. Once you have four of them, you can trade them in for a hotel.

Strictly speaking, for a further investment you can trade up to a hotel from four houses, but a good point nonetheless.

Strictly strictly speaking, you need 12 houses before you can (for a further investment) trade 4 up to a hotel (8 houses in the cheapest or most expensive areas).

[mickey]

Zone 2 or 3

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[mickey]

@edison: much appreciated, esp last comment
Zone 2-3 is not as dramatic as you paint. There are very good flats and well just houses under £600. The supply of houses is limited though, and the modern ones are 3-storey townhouses with tiny gardens. Good schools are hard to find. We'll be gambling by being 350 yards from one and only in the area.
Eventually would move out to Kent or Essex just inside m25, but not just yet

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[mickey]

What keeps ppl up at this hour BTW?

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[mudskipper]

What keeps ppl up at this hour BTW?

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Viagra?

[Pogle]

With a child you will need somewhere for them to run around and make mud pies and eat bugs etc...
Also toddlers make noise,crying and running around and generally being small and loud. In a flat, this could cause friction with the residents in the flats around you.
I personally would go for the house and as others have said schools in the area are very important too, they will make friends there and its good if the kids are all local, so parties and play dates are easy to do.

[SueEllen]

@edison: much appreciated, esp last comment
Zone 2-3 is not as dramatic as you paint. There are very good flats and well just houses under £600. The supply of houses is limited though, and the modern ones are 3-storey townhouses with tiny gardens. Good schools are hard to find. We'll be gambling by being 350 yards from one and only in the area.
Eventually would move out to Kent or Essex just inside m25, but not just yet

A toddler doesn't need a big garden but they do need a garden.

However if you only have one good school then you are going to have problems even living close to it.

I've had to listen to stories of schools changing their boundaries, children being kicked out of church schools, and no spaces due to everyone having a sibling and the 5 others living practically on top of the school since I bloody left school myself in inner London. (I should point out I have a lot of older siblings and cousins.)

There has been an increase in the birth rate and the number of school places hasn't grown with it. So even if you move to an area where you are supposedly in the boundary of two good schools you may not get into them. So either move to an outer London borough were most of the schools in the the area are good i.e. Richmond, or move out of London.

[mickey]

Richmond calls for a total comp £250k+. My rate is a tad short of that