Britain must say 'no' to eastern European workers, says Cameron

[DodgyAgent]

I don't want to argue it because I don't need to, the proof is there in East Coast Mainlaine, which since being effectively "nationalised" under the state-owned Directly Operated Railways has paid over £602m into public funds (50% more than National Express or Virgin Rail), has a public subsidy 1/7 of that to Virgin Rail, a hugely improved safety record, increased leverls of punctuality and customer satisfaction.

The assertion that railways work better under public ownership has been tested, and proven.

Where have the two systems been proven against each other that proves your point?

Irrespective of who runs them the debate should be about how they should be run. On the one hand you have private sector running them for profit and then you have the public sector running them - with no financial or service responsibility.
One may be better than the other but the real argument should be on how they should best be run. Unfortunately it is a debate that gets taken over by vested interests and personal prejudices and politics

[expat]

Where have the two systems been proven against each other that proves your point?

Irrespective of who runs them the debate should be about how they should be run. On the one hand you have private sector running them for profit and then you have the public sector running them - with no financial or service responsibility.
One may be better than the other but the real argument should be on how they should best be run. Unfortunately it is a debate that gets taken over by vested interests and personal prejudices and politics

I agree with you in principle, but the practice leans very much one way: all the private rail operators now receive a subsidy more than 4 times what British Rail did for corresponding operations, in real terms, and produce worse performance figures than the now state-owned East Coast.

And as for the two systems being proved against each other, East Coast Mainline is the very case where they have been: first GNER went bust, then National Express defaulted, then state-owned DOR took over and not only works but as I pointed out improved all the indicators of success that I can think of.

[DodgyAgent]

I agree with you in principle, but the practice leans very much one way: all the private rail operators now receive a subsidy more than 4 times what British Rail did for corresponding operations, in real terms, and produce worse performance figures than the now state-owned East Coast.

And as for the two systems being proved against each other, East Coast Mainline is the very case where they have been: first GNER went bust, then National Express defaulted, then state-owned DOR took over and not only works but as I pointed out improved all the indicators of success that I can think of.

We could go into a long debate about which is better but this is not my point. The point is that the best of both worlds should be brought together. The dynamics of choice and competition and the ethic of public service. Whether in practice this would mean having a two tier ownership of business system that will raise the investment needed and provide the returns but was set apart from the clutches of the financial markets. Maybe something along the lines of ownership of affordable homes, we have affordable businesses