Now it emerges that the World Wars were fought in vain ....

[Mich the Tester]

Another thing with Germany; their education system recognises the need for both 'bildung' or 'forming the person' and training the person to work. They don't follow every passing fad in the workplace and slavishly produce whatever so-called specialists employers want today, but they also don't neglect work skills in favour of purely academic work.

Also, this bloke called Max Weber provided some useful insights into work, even though he argued about the protestant work ethic while many southern Germans are catholics, but still seem to have the same ethic and idea of work as a 'calling' instead of purely a means to earn a living. See the success of southern german companies like BMW and Daimler Benz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pr..._of_Capitalism

[scooterscot]

Well that's the think you notice living out here, you're working to live.

Back home, you're living to work. Keerrrtesh!

[Mich the Tester]

Well that's the think you notice living out here, you're working to live.

Back home, you're living to work. Keerrrtesh!

Well that's how 'auslanders' experience it, but actually many Germans would argue that they do live to work, but they live to do a whole lot of other things too; work is an important part of life which has its time and its place as do the other aspects of life like family, hobbies, learning and socialising.

[sasguru]

Well that's the think you notice living out here, you're working to live.

Back home, you're living to work. Keerrrtesh!

Failure to abstract away from your personal situation and milieu and not see the bigger picture is a sign of limited intelligence.
There are plenty of poorly paid German people who live to work, with no minimum wage.
Germany's national success has been built in some ways at the expense of its lower paid (after the Hartz reforms).
Conversely there are plenty of people in the UK with sinecures and as central London is offically the wealthiest part of the EU, there must be be penty of wealthy people who don't work at all.

[scooterscot]

Well that's how 'auslanders' experience it, but actually many Germans would argue that they do live to work, but they live to do a whole lot of other things too; work is an important part of life which has its time and its place as do the other aspects of life like family, hobbies, learning and socialising.

I agree, it's not all about wealth. Far from it.

For reasons a I cannot explain, we always feel like we have more free time on our hands. Concerns are less, spend a couple of hours in the local café, no problem. Rat run is a distant memory.

There's always a local event happening of some sort, not a month goes by the street is closed for some mass celebration.

[Mich the Tester]

There are plenty of poorly paid German people who live to work, with no minimum wage.
Germany's national success has been built in some ways at the expense of its lower paid (after the Hartz reforms).

Yes, to some extent, but although there's no national minimum wage I think nearly all sectors have an agreed minimum wage so very few people work without some kind of minimum wage protection. They also have good adult education provision, but true that it isn't a 'workers paradise' for those with few skills.

[scooterscot]

, but true that it isn't a 'workers paradise' for those with few skills.

10-4, the feckless need not apply. Probably why there is not an emigration problem in Germany similar to the levels recently in the UK. Makes you wonder, dat, why they all choose to congregate in and around the London area.

[sasguru]

10-4, the feckless need not apply. Probably why there is not an emigration problem in Germany similar to the levels recently in the UK. Makes you wonder, dat, why they all choose to congregate in and around the London area.

Feck me, in all your years, did you not learn to speak English?
No chance with German, then, you'll always be a 2nd class despised auslander.

[Mich the Tester]

Feck me, in all your years, did you not learn to speak English?
No chance with German, then, you'll always be a 2nd class despised auslander.

I think a lot of auslanders are actually doing quite well in Germany. Your German contractormobile was probably built by Turks, designed by Italians, engineered by Germans, transported by Czechs and marketed to you by Brits. Except I thought you drove a 2nd hand Datsun

Yep, there are issues with immigration and low level employment in Germany, but at least they have the economic means to deal with their problems.

[sasguru]

Yep, there are issues with immigration and low level employment in Germany, but at least they have the economic means to deal with their problems.

There is about to be a neccessarily huge influx of immigration into Germany* as the population declines precipitously - this will make immigration to the UK under Labour look like a drop in the ocean.
Time will tell what effect this has on the German economy and society.


*or German companies will move to where there is labour, or both. In the end companies will not respect national borders, even German ones.