Spain in state of total emergency

[darmstadt]

Maybe Muslims have a point in this whole Islamic Banking system (though I am not sure how different it is to interest). Point is interest is forbidden and in part I can see why..... though not sure what the alternative exactly is.

Not just Muslim but the Catholic religion is, supposedly, against interest as its a form of gambling. Interesting that its Catholic countries which are going under...

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Here is a solution (Call me an idiot if you will).

All debts in Spain and Greece are to be repaid interest free (that is 0%). That way they will see light at the end of the tunnel and will not just keep paying more and more interest.

Maybe Muslims have a point in this whole Islamic Banking system (though I am not sure how different it is to interest). Point is interest is forbidden and in part I can see why..... though not sure what the alternative exactly is.

[Doggy Styles]

It goes completely against the grain to agree with Sas, But I agree with Sas

Er, me too.

[Mich the Tester]

This problem would have happened anyway.

Indeed, I think the problem runs much deeper than the choice of currency. Too many people see democracy as giving them a birthright to spend other people's borrowed money.

BB's right as well; there's a big weakness at the heart of democracy IMO, and it's this; when you vote in a developed, powerful country you are one of a minority of people in the world who can influence decisions that affect nearly everyone in the world, and not just influence the course of the country in which you vote (that's 'globalisation' at work). Trouble is, there's no test of competence to bear this responsibility. The masses seem to be falling deeper into a pulp media driven semi-literacy, but they've got most of the votes. It's not the people who read the quality papers, the FT or the economist, or watch newsnight and piss around on TED.com or edge.org that worry me; it's the people whose brains are pulverised by a diet of Big Brother, the Kardashians and the tabloids, who then go out and cast their vote; the power of stupid people to damage themselves and others, with no benefit to themselves, should not be underestimated.

I don't know how to solve it in a way that's compatible with principles of democracy and human rights, but maybe we need some basic comprehension, literacy and numeracy test, that takes account of possible problems like dyslexia, to ascertain whether someone's really capable of comprehending the news before casting their vote.

[Mich the Tester]

FFS why don't you guys do Economics 101, science 101 etc before spouting bollox on here?

It's not any of those books/courses that convinced me the Euro is not the central issue, but nevertheless not necessarily part of the solution; it's Taleb's Black Swan theory. The Euro looks to me like one of those projects that's 'too big to fail'; it might have been a nice idea at some time in the past, but these days we really need diversity in business approaches, political approaches and economic approaches, and one big block currency makes that difficult.

[BlasterBates]

Being outside the Euro didn't stop Hungary gorge itself on cheap debt.

Hungary: The Greece of Eastern Europe | The Great Debate UK

It also didn't stop Thailand, Malaysia and whole host of Asian countries gorging themselves on cheap dollar debt in the 1990's.

This problem would have happened anyway.

[Mich the Tester]

You're missing the major fact that the artificially low interest rates the Euro countries enjoyed (which were right for Germany but not for anyone else)

Not missing it at all, as I said, the Euro includes economies that aren't compatible.

[Diver]

You're missing the major fact that the artificially low interest rates the Euro countries enjoyed (which were right for Germany but not for anyone else) meant borrowing was cheap and so people could run up those debts in the first place.
If interest rates are 15% as opposed to 3% people and businesses think harder about borrowing money.

FFS why don't you guys do Economics 101, science 101 etc before spouting bollox on here?

It goes completely against the grain to agree with Sas, But I agree with Sas

[sasguru]

Indeed, that's why I say the Euro is a red herring.

You're missing the major fact that the artificially low interest rates the Euro countries enjoyed (which were right for Germany but not for anyone else) meant borrowing was cheap and so people could run up those debts in the first place.
If interest rates are 15% as opposed to 3% people and businesses think harder about borrowing money.

FFS why don't you guys do Economics 101, science 101 etc before spouting bollox on here?

[Mich the Tester]

You really are a first class moron if you think this has nothing to do with the Euro. Not the sharpest analytical tool in the block are you?

Personally I think it does have a lot to do with the Euro, but more to do with governments spending more money than they have and the public treating elections as a trip to Harrods with someone else's credit card. Yes, the Euro includes economies that are not very compatible, but even outside of the Euro, you can't go on for ever spending more than you have.