Those Peace Loving, Tolerant, Pluralistic Muslims in Action

[Gold Dalek]

"Some of the snobby, bigoted crap getting spouted on this board is very borderline, and if a few more non middle aged, middle class white men on it there would be some serious offence getting given"

Typical liberal hand wringing muslim apologist bollox

Why you reference middle class white men in a conversation about religion is interesting, it's usually done by those losing the argument to try and link religion to race and therebye invoke the 'racist card' as a means of silencing debate.

[snaw]

I'd rather take a face value conversations I've had with muslims friends and info I've read over the years, along with my belief that we're all human beings, in it together, with all the good and bad that being human means. As opposed to the paranoid rantings of a self proclamed, self taught 'expert' who doesn't know the language the Koran was written or allow that maybe others (Believers and real experts) interpretations of the book might actually be valid.

You're as bad as the nutters, you're convinced you've got the true interpretation and it's holy war for all of us. When the streets are flowing with blood with the imminent armagedon you predict then I'll come join you, until then I'll stick to buying my milk, bread and paper at my local corner shop. Run by the asian guy who I hope isn't secretly plotting my death by suicide bomb this Sunday morning. World cup is coming up and I'd like to see if Rooney recovers in time ...

[snaw]

"Some of the snobby, bigoted crap getting spouted on this board is very borderline, and if a few more non middle aged, middle class white men on it there would be some serious offence getting given"

Typical liberal hand wringing muslim apologist bollox

Why you reference middle class white men in a conversation about religion is interesting, it's usually done by those losing the argument to try and link religion to race and therebye invoke the 'racist card' as a means of silencing debate.

No, I just reference the majority view on this board which is quite clearly a very particular subset of the society I live in. Otherwise I'd hear it a hell of a lot more in daily life.

How your logic applies to that losing an argument I'm not sure - one side is allowed to insult the other without fear of reprisal, but as soon as I take a few jibes it's evidence of losing an arguement ... umm yeah ... I think you're arguement is the one that's lost if you look at the wider picture. You've nothing to offer but hate. Same as the nutters on the other side. Sad thing is though I know you're not going all the way in saying what you really think and I'm pretty damn positive you'd not have this conversation in public, I would quite happily.

[DimPrawn]

Can i borrow your rose tinted specs snaw?

I'd like to see what the UK looks like through them for a few days.

Cheers,

DP.

[wendigo100]

Does the Koran have an equivalent to: "Forgive those who tresspass against us?"

I'd be surprised if it didn't say the opposite.

[Dalek Supreme]

Are you a LibDem voter, Snaw? You seem to have a highly developed sense of guilt.

[chock]

No, I just reference the majority view on this board which is quite clearly a very particular subset of the society I live in. Otherwise I'd hear it a hell of a lot more in daily life.

How your logic applies to that losing an argument I'm not sure - one side is allowed to insult the other without fear of reprisal, but as soon as I take a few jibes it's evidence of losing an arguement ... umm yeah ... I think you're arguement is the one that's lost if you look at the wider picture. You've nothing to offer but hate. Same as the nutters on the other side. Sad thing is though I know you're not going all the way in saying what you really think and I'm pretty damn positive you'd not have this conversation in public, I would quite happily.

Snaw, your comments suggest that such people do not view their opinions in public because they know that it is wrong. This is not the case. The keyword is fear. Fear of reprisal, fear of physical attack, not fear of guilty conscience. The truth is that most people do have these type of conversations in public. Not about Islam, but about religion in general.

On being questioned on his views on the Da Vinci Code, Ian McKellan quipped that at the very least, it proved that Jesus was not gay. I found this funny. I had a chuckle to myself and I can joke about things on this level to my friends openly in public. Would I joke about this openly in public if I felt the fear of reprisal? Would Ian McKellan have said this if it meant that potentially he'd have a Christian mob after him - probably not. Does that make him a coward? - no, sensible......

[The Lone Gunman]

I'd rather take a face value conversations I've had with muslims friends and info I've read over the years, along with my belief that we're all human beings, in it together, with all the good and bad that being human means. As opposed to the paranoid rantings of a self proclamed, self taught 'expert' who doesn't know the language the Koran was written or allow that maybe others (Believers and real experts) interpretations of the book might actually be valid.

You're as bad as the nutters, you're convinced you've got the true interpretation and it's holy war for all of us. When the streets are flowing with blood with the imminent armagedon you predict then I'll come join you, until then I'll stick to buying my milk, bread and paper at my local corner shop. Run by the asian guy who I hope isn't secretly plotting my death by suicide bomb this Sunday morning. World cup is coming up and I'd like to see if Rooney recovers in time ...

I never claimed to be an expert, but I have read the Koran and the hadiths! I have never claimed to be right, in fact I have asked on a number of occasions to be corrected. I have only proposed my understanding.
As usual the ill informed and incapable try to throw the argument to petty detail instead of the actuality. I dont care about the original language its just a bunch of squigles to me, though I do know what it is. I made a mistake in posting that is all.
I have also admitted that the translations I have read may be biassed and that I may be paranoid. If anybody is claiming to have the only right answer it is you. You seem to think nobody else is entitled to an opinion.

Do you think everybody you talk to tells you the truth? Do you think that if somebody did have a plot they would tell you it?
Have you seen what the Muslims (even non radicals) do when they percieve an offence against Islam? Signs with Death to the West paraded in London in protest at a few cartoons for example.

Who said it was imminent? Islam is a long term religion, its world domination has no sell by date, they dont care, God and paradise are eternal. It may be next week it may be in a thousand years.

How many times have I said suicide is a sin under Islam?

You dont seem to be able to read or understand other people posts.

Are you are so blinded by your own bias?

[The Lone Gunman]

Does the Koran have an equivalent to: "Forgive those who tresspass against us?"

I'd be surprised if it didn't say the opposite.

Yes it does. It preaches tolerance and peace mostly. A Muslim must not spill the blood of an innocent nor a Muslim alike.

[wendigo100]

Yes it does. It preaches tolerance and peace mostly. A Muslim must not spill the blood of an innocent nor a Muslim alike.

What do you mean by "mostly"?

And what do you mean by "innocent and muslim alike"? Does that include jews and other infidels?