Moody's downgraded Italy three notches from AA2 to A2

[Mich the Tester]

I didn't know that Fiat was nationalised and available to sell to meet government debt.

No, it's largely private but the state and some provinces still own a lot of shares.

[minestrone]

No, it's largely private but the state and some provinces still own a lot of shares.

In a 4.5 billion factory?

Coventry hospital is going to cost 3 billion, when you put those figures side by side you see how small Italy's manufacturing base is.

[Mich the Tester]

In a 4.5 billion factory?

Coventry hospital is going to cost 3 billion, when you put those figures side by side you see how small Italy's manufacturing base is.

Finnmeccanica and ENI are small?

[Mich the Tester]

Soupy, you've convinced me; it's not the world's economy that's ****ed up; it's the economists.

[darmstadt]

Maybe Moodys (largest and only shareholder - Warren Buffet) are full of tulip and only look out for their own interests:

Credit rating agencies such as Moody's have been subject to criticism in the wake of large losses in the asset-backed security collateralized debt obligation (ABS CDO) market that occurred despite being assigned top ratings by the credit rating agencies. For instance, losses on $340.7 million worth of ABS collateralized debt obligations (CDO) issued by Credit Suisse Group added up to about $125 million, despite being rated AAA by Moody's.

Similarly, large companies such as AIG and Lehman Brothers had AAA and AA rating until they went bankrupt in 2008.

Moody's has been accused of "blackmail". In one example the German insurer Hannover Re was offered a "free rating" by Moody's. The insurer refused. Moody's continued with the "free ratings", but over time lowered its rating of the company. Still refusing Moody's services, Moody's lowered Hannover's debt to junk, and the company in a few hours lost $175 million in market value.

"As the housing market collapsed in late 2007, Moody's Investors Service, whose investment ratings were widely trusted, responded by purging analysts and executives who warned of trouble and promoting those who helped Wall Street plunge the country into its worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. A McClatchy investigation has found that Moody's punished executives who questioned why the company was risking its reputation by putting its profits ahead of providing trustworthy ratings for investment offerings."

[Mich the Tester]

Maybe Moodys (largest and only shareholder - Warren Buffet) are full of tulip and only look out for their own interests:

Maybe indeed.

[minestrone]

Finnmeccanica and ENI are small?

Finnmeccanica have a market cap of 2.8 billion which is less than Weir Groups who are just down the road from me in a country where I am constantly reminded does not have a manufacturing base.

Italy has a growth forecast of nearly -3% with a fruit loop in charge and yet you are telling me that all is well with Italy?

[doodab]

In a 4.5 billion factory?

Coventry hospital is going to cost 3 billion, when you put those figures side by side you see how small Italy's manufacturing base is.

Fiat is a very big company, they own a controlling stake in chrysler and have €19 billion in cash. They have a lot of debt as well, hence the valuation of the company as a whole being quite low for it's size.

Just goes to show that these financial whizz kids know **** all about the real economy.

[Mich the Tester]

Finnmeccanica have a market cap of 2.8 billion which is less than Weir Groups who are just down the road from me in a country where I am constantly reminded does not have a manufacturing base.

Italy has a growth forecast of nearly -3% with a fruit loop in charge and yet you are telling me that all is well with Italy?

Where are you getting these figures? Moodys?

Yes, Italy does indeed have a fruit loop in charge. If anything positive has come out of this rating change it's that he's lost even more support among the Italian business people who vote for the right; he's on his way out.

It's probably also downgraded the importance of downgrading. Japan and New Zealand have been downgraded this year too, due to earthquakes, and the US too. Probably best if everyone's downgraded a few notches and then things level out.

[doodab]

Finnmeccanica have a market cap of 2.8 billion which is less than Weir Groups who are just down the road from me in a country where I am constantly reminded does not have a manufacturing base.

Finnmeccanica own 21% of Eurofighter, employ 75,00 people and have revenues of over €18 billion. Weir group are about 1/10th the size, but do make a healthy profit.