The next German Chancellor will be a Green

[BlasterBates]

I'd also point out that if the chairman of RWE would rather take the government of Europe's biggest economy to court than sit down with them to work out alternatives for future energy supply, then he shouldn't be running that company as he's neglecting the long term interests of his shareholders.

I'm sure there are other companies just jumping at the prospect of grabbing chunks of RWE's share in energy production.

Mr RWE would be delighted to provide alternative generation capacity, unfortunately he can't get planning permission, mainly because of Green activitists in the local councils.

[Mich the Tester]

Mr RWE would be delighted to provide alternative generation capacity, unfortunately he can't get planning permission, mainly because of Green activitists in the local councils.

So he decides to spoil his employer's relations with the federal government as well. Clever.

[BlasterBates]

So he decides to spoil his employer's relations with the federal government as well. Clever.

The question is do you want to fund your electricity through tax payers money or international investors. Since most European countries are broke, publically funded is not an option, even though there er some people who think even when billions of debt they can conjure up further billions to build a new power network. Therefore you have to deal with companies that operate in the interest of their international shareholders. These shareholders will be the same regardless who is running the company, it is highly likely whoever was running it, apart rom a public funded co. would take them to court, because they can This is the trouble is some think that you can simply suspend the rules of capitalism. You can't, unless you have amassed a huge surplus in the public coffers, which they haven't. It's all been spent.

[doodab]

RWE basically generates and runs the Power network in Bavaria and some other states. They actually have run all the power stations and provide electricity from all sources including renewables.

My local nuclear power station (Isar II) is run by E.ON. I think they are responsible for a fairly big chunk of the leccy in Bavaria actually.

[BlasterBates]

ok ...but anyway the point is they are an "Electricity" provider not just atomic power stations.

[doodab]

The question is do you want to fund your electricity through tax payers money or international investors. Since most European countries are broke, publically funded is not an option, even though there a leftwing loonies that think even when billions of debt they can conjure up further billions to build a new power network. Therefore you have to deal with companies that operate in the interest of their international shareholders. These shareholders will be the same regardless who is running the company, it is highly likely whoever was running it, apart rom a public funded co. would take them to court, because they can This is the trouble with "leftwing" thinking that you can simply suspend the rules of capitalism. You can't, unless you have amassed a huge surplus in the public coffers, which they haven't. It's all been spent.

Except of course that Germany doesn't have much trouble borrowing money.

Both RWE and E.ON (as well as Siemens) are German companies with lots of German shareholders and the "rules of capitalism" here seem to be just a little bit different, in that they play a longer term game. E.ON aren't taking anyone to court, and all three companies are making significant investment in renewable energy.

E.ON - Power and Gas - Investors - Stock - Shareholder Structure

RWE AG - Shareholder Structure

I really think the Germans see this as an opportunity as much as a threat.

[doodab]

ok ...but anyway the point is they are an "Electricity" provider not just atomic power stations.

Yes but so are E.ON, and I believe it is they who run the grid and generate most of the leccy in Bavaria, not RWE.

[BlasterBates]

Except of course that Germany doesn't have much trouble borrowing money.

Both RWE and E.ON (as well as Siemens) are German companies with lots of German shareholders and the "rules of capitalism" here seem to be just a little bit different, in that they play a longer term game. E.ON aren't taking anyone to court, and all three companies are making significant investment in renewable energy.

E.ON - Power and Gas - Investors - Stock - Shareholder Structure

RWE AG - Shareholder Structure

I really think the Germans see this as an opportunity as much as a threat.

Yes of course you can keep borrowing money, like Greece did, and for a while it'll be hey ring a ding ding.

I personally won't be in Germany to pay the extortionate taxes and electricity bills that will inevitably follow, but I will be watching with a great deal of fascination from the sidelines, to see how the Germans get on with their new Eco future.

I wonder how quickly large companies like BASF will relocate their production facilities to places where they'll get a reliable electricity supply.

[doodab]

I personally won't be in Germany to pay the extortionate taxes and electricity bills that will inevitably follow, but I will be watching with a great deal of fascination from the sidelines, to see how the Germans get on with their new Eco future.

I expect it will go rather well, what with them being world leaders in renewable energy technology and quite a lot of other "green" stuff and the rest of the world jumping on the bandwagon.

[BlasterBates]

I watched "Presse Club" on Sunday, the German Sunday journalists talkshow. This is what the exit from Atomic power means. In 2013 due to the fact that several atomic powerstations will have been switched off and the suppliers will have to buy extra electricity from abroad and expand fossil fuel generation, Electricity prices will be up by 50% (due to having to buy Carbon trading certificates). It would be impossible for producers to replace it with renewables, compunded by the fact that all generators are now refusing to pay into the renewable energy fund, because they have to close Nuclear power stations. For Germany's chemical, steel, aluminium and paper industry, who's costs are approx 50% energy means they will no longer be able to compete, they're now making noises about being subsidised. As the chief editor of the "Handelsblatt" said Germany would have to become a service economy.

Sounds like deindustrialisation to me,