New tax bombshell: 20% VAT

[SueEllen]

Biggest problem that I see for the UK is lack of wealth creation through added value- i.e. making things here and selling them abroad for a profit. Without a strong manufacturing export base, the UK has been in steady, terminal decline for over 30 years.

What could we make here?

Or more to the point - What could we make here under British owned and managed companies? We are competing with countries who have lots of cheap manpower, don't give a f*** about maiming their workers and polluting their own landscapes.

[Doggy Styles]

So then CUK doom-sayers, WHY is it going to get worse? Before you trot out the "huge national debt" line, note that even AFTER everything Gordon's done, the UK debt is not that worse than other developed countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pu..._world_map.svg

So what makes the UK worse off than elsewhere? Or is everywhere just as doomed as we?

If you are in debt you are poor.

If your debt is increasing you are in trouble.

If your debt is increasing at an increasing rate, you are in crisis.

We are in crisis, and our increasing rate is worse than everyone else's.

[Bagpuss]

What could we make here?

Or more to the point - What could we make here under British owned and managed companies? We are competing with countries who have lots of cheap manpower, don't give a f*** about maiming their workers and polluting their own landscapes.

Weak argument, Germany are one of the world's biggest exporters.

[AtW]

Weak argument, Germany are one of the world's biggest exporters.

CEO of BMW studied Mechanical Engineering, run R&D, was Technical Director - he is a Doctor of no bull-tulip science.

And who was the last guy who run Rover? You know one of those who paid a tenner for it

[RichardCranium]

What could we make here?

Or more to the point - What could we make here under British owned and managed companies? We are competing with countries who have lots of cheap manpower, don't give a f*** about maiming their workers and polluting their own landscapes.

Corus is still doing R&D into steel production. They have the best armour development staff in the world.

We ought to be providing consultancy into nuclear power stations (as opposed to helping America pretend Iran has a nuclear weapons industry).

We ought to be far more swamped with tourists than we are (but we always have been crap at attracting them).

We ought to be exporting real ale to the world, not importing lager made from maize syrup and rice starch.

We ought to be exporting education by encouraging private schools, not trying to shut them down because they are better than comprehensives.

We ought to have an aluminium industry.

We ought to have a copper industry.

We ought to be a world leader in recycling technology by now.

We could have been a world leader in alternative energy production.

We ought to have a computer industry.

We should be selling Health & Safety consultancy and Equal Ops consultancy.

But most importantly, we should be giving students grants, tax breaks to R&D departments and a simple taxation and bureaucracy system to small enterprises. That then will create the export businesses of the future.

[Doggy Styles]

Well said RC.

Er, when can you start?

[SueEllen]

Corus is still doing R&D into steel production. They have the best armour development staff in the world.

Thought they were owned by Tata Steel.

One of the big problems with your oughts is the value of the pound. When the pound was weaker against the Euro we had more European tourists over here actually buying things.

[AtW]

One of the big problems with your oughts is the value of the pound. When the pound was weaker against the Euro we had more European tourists over here actually buying things.

Yes they were buying things made elsewhere, it was temporary speculative gain - it can't carry whole country.

Tata bought Corus and what do you think they will be doing - investing into R&D here? Heck, they've got plenty of cheap plants elsewhere, this buy (in my view) is primarily to shut down competitor.

[MrMark]

What could we make here?

Or more to the point - What could we make here under British owned and managed companies? We are competing with countries who have lots of cheap manpower, don't give a f*** about maiming their workers and polluting their own landscapes.

It's not compulsory to earn money via producing stuff in a factory. For example where I live a lot of money comes into the country from overseas students learning English or studying at the famous university. Sometimes we can benefit from having the English language. As RC pointed out, we could be earning more from tourism, or from scientific advances in say alternative energy. Problem is that a majority of the population (and I'm probably part of this majority) don't have these skills to prosper in these fields. The government (well governments, as the last Tory lot were similar) have been content to see a good proportion of the population drop out of the job market, and indeed encourage incomers from elsewhere to take up any perceived slack. At some point there's going to be a breaking point I fear.

[xoggoth]

We could go into the vice trade big time and turn every city into a Bangkok. Or create a huge reality theme park based on Warcraft.