Why don't you own an electric bike?

[TheBigYinJames]

people are too stupid and lazy to get off their arse and onto a bike.

Bikes won't even move unless you have a high IQ.

[dang65]

...loads of stuff not worth quoting...

All you're doing is burying your head further into the sand. I've said loads of times on here that I'm not particularly anti-car, just anti people that feel they're hard done by when they have to pay a lot of money to own and use a car. I've got a car myself. I find it very useful for the shopping and taking the kids places. But I accept that I have to pay for that privilege, and I know why I have to pay for that privilege.

I don't really see your arguments anyway. You are skirting round all my points in an irrelevent way. Yes, I could close my window or turn the radio up. I do. But the noise is out there, cars are making the noise (as you've now admitted) and that constitutes damage to the environment.

Then you wander off into some kind of argument that cars don't produce debris? When did you last walk or cycle down a country road? Hub caps, strips of rubber, broken lights, let alone the film of oil on all the puddles, and the grease, shredded rubber and skid marks. This is quite apart from the natural debris which, as you say, washes onto the road, but then gets sprayed all over the place, mixed in with the oil and grease to, er, damage the environment. Again, I understand why this happens and I contribute to it myself, but be willing to pay for it if you do it.

I wasn't talking about lack of nature at service stations, I was talking about the noise from the motorway which blocks out the sound of nature and also makes it very unpleasant to sit outside to eat your sandwiches. It's a cacophony, but you claimed earlier that I'm the only person that can hear it, or something. Train stations can be really quite tranquil in comparison with that.

You show admirable concern for the emergency services in the case of parked cars. However, we're not talking about obstruction here, we're talking about congestion. You sound like an old fellow, probably in your late 50s going by the way you write, so you must remember when residential roads were full of kids playing football, jumpers for goalposts and all that? Do you really consider rows of parked cars down both sides of those same roads to be an acceptable replacement for that? Where there are signs everywhere saying "no ball games" and children can get ASBOs for scratching a car while they are playing, if any of them dare venture out to play? The money to pay for the resulting obesity and heart problems from complete lack of traditional exercise should rightly come from the people that are preventing that exercise.

But you'll probably come up with some abstract, roundabout justification for that now.

[oracleslave]

All you're doing is burying your head further into the sand. I've said loads of times on here that I'm not particularly anti-car, just anti people that feel they're hard done by when they have to pay a lot of money to own and use a car. I've got a car myself. I find it very useful for the shopping and taking the kids places. But I accept that I have to pay for that privilege, and I know why I have to pay for that privilege.

I don't really see your arguments anyway. You are skirting round all my points in an irrelevent way. Yes, I could close my window or turn the radio up. I do. But the noise is out there, cars are making the noise (as you've now admitted) and that constitutes damage to the environment.

Then you wander off into some kind of argument that cars don't produce debris? When did you last walk or cycle down a country road? Hub caps, strips of rubber, broken lights, let alone the film of oil on all the puddles, and the grease, shredded rubber and skid marks. This is quite apart from the natural debris which, as you say, washes onto the road, but then gets sprayed all over the place, mixed in with the oil and grease to, er, damage the environment. Again, I understand why this happens and I contribute to it myself, but be willing to pay for it if you do it.

I wasn't talking about lack of nature at service stations, I was talking about the noise from the motorway which blocks out the sound of nature and also makes it very unpleasant to sit outside to eat your sandwiches. It's a cacophony, but you claimed earlier that I'm the only person that can hear it, or something. Train stations can be really quite tranquil in comparison with that.

You show admirable concern for the emergency services in the case of parked cars. However, we're not talking about obstruction here, we're talking about congestion. You sound like an old fellow, probably in your late 50s going by the way you write, so you must remember when residential roads were full of kids playing football, jumpers for goalposts and all that? Do you really consider rows of parked cars down both sides of those same roads to be an acceptable replacement for that? Where there are signs everywhere saying "no ball games" and children can get ASBOs for scratching a car while they are playing, if any of them dare venture out to play? The money to pay for the resulting obesity and heart problems from complete lack of traditional exercise should rightly come from the people that are preventing that exercise.

But you'll probably come up with some abstract, roundabout justification for that now.

dang65

Given the evidence...harsh but fair.

[DS23]

dang65

[dang65]

Given the evidence...harsh but fair.

Coincidentally, the same applies to the huge increases in VED and fuel tax.

[BoredBloke]

All you're doing is burying your head further into the sand. I've said loads of times on here that I'm not particularly anti-car, just anti people that feel they're hard done by when they have to pay a lot of money to own and use a car. I've got a car myself. I find it very useful for the shopping and taking the kids places. But I accept that I have to pay for that privilege, and I know why I have to pay for that privilege.

How can you say that you are not anti car? With every post you prove that you are the opposite. I know that you have a car because you mentioned it yonks ago in another anti car pro public transport thread. The fact that it is useful as a means to take your kids out in marks you as a hypocrite. So it is ok for you to trundle down a country lane to take your kids out but others are not allowed this luxury - this dispite you leaving your hub caps/glass/oil/gasses/rubber everywhere. The fact that you feel the cleanup cost is justified is a matter for you. Personally I don't because I don't feel that the damage the car does is in anyway near the scale you suggest.

"I don't really see your arguments anyway. You are skirting round all my points in an irrelevent way. Yes, I could close my window or turn the radio up. I do. But the noise is out there, cars are making the noise (as you've now admitted) and that constitutes damage to the environment."

And the noise was there when you moved there. Yes the volume of traffic may have increased, but I'd suggest the reason you now focus on the tyre noise is largely down to the fact that cars are quieter than say 10 or 20 years ago - when you wouldn't have heard the tyres due to the sound of the engine.


"Then you wander off into some kind of argument that cars don't produce debris? When did you last walk or cycle down a country road? Hub caps, strips of rubber, broken lights, let alone the film of oil on all the puddles, and the grease, shredded rubber and skid marks."

Where the hell do you live? I live pretty close to the countryside and grew up on a farm and that isn't the countryside I recognise. Even the busiest roads into Manchester are not littered in the way you suggest. Think of it this way, how often does a single car lose a hub cap while driving. I'll give you a clue, I started driving 17 years ago and I've lost a grand total of none that way. None! A country lane by its very nature is not going to be heavily used so it stands to reason that it is not going to be littered in the way you suggest.

I didn't say that cars don't produce debris though, wear and tear will always have an effect - but it is not the effect you are talking about. To produce the litter you describe we would all have to be driving clowns cars. A few weeks ago we went camping in the Lakes - shock horror we took the car (two actually as there were a few of us). The one thing I would say is that the countryside was completely lacking in the things that you stated. And it is not a case that I wasn't looking for things. Mu son is blind so when walking you tend to look out for things which he might trip over etc. Guess how many hub caps I spotted. Go on..there is a clue in the chunk of text above.

Finally on this point you complain about the skid marks on the road and the shredded tyres. That is a symptom of bad driving - not all cars leave skid marks because not all car drivers are bad drivers. But good drivers also have occasion to stop suddenly, especially in the countryside.

"I wasn't talking about lack of nature at service stations, I was talking about the noise from the motorway which blocks out the sound of nature and also makes it very unpleasant to sit outside to eat your sandwiches."

lol this gets better. The services are next to the motorway for the convenience of the motorist. If you wanted to hear nature you have the choice to drive to somewhere further away from the motorway to eat your butties.

"It's a cacophony, but you claimed earlier that I'm the only person that can hear it, or something."

No I said I fail to hear tyre noise - and you mentioned it regarding a short 30mph road. Obviously I hear motorway noise, but then it is a motorway. I expect to hear the noise generated by hundreds of cars and lorries thundering down a motorway. In exactly the same way that I expect to hear trains when standing near a train track and planes when I'm under the flightpath of a busy airport.


"Train stations can be really quite tranquil in comparison with that."

Yes they can - rarely used ones, just like the country roads in the countryside

"You show admirable concern for the emergency services in the case of parked cars. However, we're not talking about obstruction here, we're talking about congestion. You sound like an old fellow, probably in your late 50s going by the way you write, so you must remember when residential roads were full of kids playing football, jumpers for goalposts and all that? Do you really consider rows of parked cars down both sides of those same roads to be an acceptable replacement for that? Where there are signs everywhere saying "no ball games" and children can get ASBOs for scratching a car while they are playing, if any of them dare venture out to play? The money to pay for the resulting obesity and heart problems from complete lack of traditional exercise should rightly come from the people that are preventing that exercise."

That has to be your best effort by far. Kids don't get an ASBO for playing. It is not the evil car which is preventing kids from playing out - it is more likely it is the rise of the playstation generation which is keeping them in. Substituting playing real football for FIFA 2008, walkers and coke.

You say that I sound 50 - I'm approaching my 40th birthday. You sound like somebody who hankers for the pre car era when every Sunday all you could hear was to sound of leather on willow. You know the place....that one that doesn't exist.


"But you'll probably come up with some abstract, roundabout justification for that now."

No just back to your anti car sentiments. Your opposition to a car is that they are noisy - but that the noise is from its tyres. So even if a fully green fairy fart powered car could be produced you still wouldn't accept it due to your inability to listen to the radio. Also, any wear and tear between the road surface cannot leave any traces on the road. I'm not sure how you'd go about this one! I'd imagine hover cars might make more of a noise than the ones we have now. That any car should be built in such a way that nothing should ever fall off it or god forbid leak from it - even in the case of an accident.

[oracleslave]

How can you say that you are not anti car? With every post you prove that you are the opposite. I know that you have a car because you mentioned it yonks ago in another anti car pro public transport thread. The fact that it is useful as a means to take your kids out in marks you as a hypocrite. So it is ok for you to trundle down a country lane to take your kids out but others are not allowed this luxury - this dispite you leaving your hub caps/glass/oil/gasses/rubber everywhere. The fact that you feel the cleanup cost is justified is a matter for you. Personally I don't because I don't feel that the damage the car does is in anyway near the scale you suggest.

"I don't really see your arguments anyway. You are skirting round all my points in an irrelevent way. Yes, I could close my window or turn the radio up. I do. But the noise is out there, cars are making the noise (as you've now admitted) and that constitutes damage to the environment."

And the noise was there when you moved there. Yes the volume of traffic may have increased, but I'd suggest the reason you now focus on the tyre noise is largely down to the fact that cars are quieter than say 10 or 20 years ago - when you wouldn't have heard the tyres due to the sound of the engine.


"Then you wander off into some kind of argument that cars don't produce debris? When did you last walk or cycle down a country road? Hub caps, strips of rubber, broken lights, let alone the film of oil on all the puddles, and the grease, shredded rubber and skid marks."

Where the hell do you live? I live pretty close to the countryside and grew up on a farm and that isn't the countryside I recognise. Even the busiest roads into Manchester are not littered in the way you suggest. Think of it this way, how often does a single car lose a hub cap while driving. I'll give you a clue, I started driving 17 years ago and I've lost a grand total of none that way. None! A country lane by its very nature is not going to be heavily used so it stands to reason that it is not going to be littered in the way you suggest.

I didn't say that cars don't produce debris though, wear and tear will always have an effect - but it is not the effect you are talking about. To produce the litter you describe we would all have to be driving clowns cars. A few weeks ago we went camping in the Lakes - shock horror we took the car (two actually as there were a few of us). The one thing I would say is that the countryside was completely lacking in the things that you stated. And it is not a case that I wasn't looking for things. Mu son is blind so when walking you tend to look out for things which he might trip over etc. Guess how many hub caps I spotted. Go on..there is a clue in the chunk of text above.

Finally on this point you complain about the skid marks on the road and the shredded tyres. That is a symptom of bad driving - not all cars leave skid marks because not all car drivers are bad drivers. But good drivers also have occasion to stop suddenly, especially in the countryside.

"I wasn't talking about lack of nature at service stations, I was talking about the noise from the motorway which blocks out the sound of nature and also makes it very unpleasant to sit outside to eat your sandwiches."

lol this gets better. The services are next to the motorway for the convenience of the motorist. If you wanted to hear nature you have the choice to drive to somewhere further away from the motorway to eat your butties.

"It's a cacophony, but you claimed earlier that I'm the only person that can hear it, or something."

No I said I fail to hear tyre noise - and you mentioned it regarding a short 30mph road. Obviously I hear motorway noise, but then it is a motorway. I expect to hear the noise generated by hundreds of cars and lorries thundering down a motorway. In exactly the same way that I expect to hear trains when standing near a train track and planes when I'm under the flightpath of a busy airport.


"Train stations can be really quite tranquil in comparison with that."

Yes they can - rarely used ones, just like the country roads in the countryside

"You show admirable concern for the emergency services in the case of parked cars. However, we're not talking about obstruction here, we're talking about congestion. You sound like an old fellow, probably in your late 50s going by the way you write, so you must remember when residential roads were full of kids playing football, jumpers for goalposts and all that? Do you really consider rows of parked cars down both sides of those same roads to be an acceptable replacement for that? Where there are signs everywhere saying "no ball games" and children can get ASBOs for scratching a car while they are playing, if any of them dare venture out to play? The money to pay for the resulting obesity and heart problems from complete lack of traditional exercise should rightly come from the people that are preventing that exercise."

That has to be your best effort by far. Kids don't get an ASBO for playing. It is not the evil car which is preventing kids from playing out - it is more likely it is the rise of the playstation generation which is keeping them in. Substituting playing real football for FIFA 2008, walkers and coke.

You say that I sound 50 - I'm approaching my 40th birthday. You sound like somebody who hankers for the pre car era when every Sunday all you could hear was to sound of leather on willow. You know the place....that one that doesn't exist.


"But you'll probably come up with some abstract, roundabout justification for that now."

No just back to your anti car sentiments. Your opposition to a car is that they are noisy - but that the noise is from its tyres. So even if a fully green fairy fart powered car could be produced you still wouldn't accept it due to your inability to listen to the radio. Also, any wear and tear between the road surface cannot leave any traces on the road. I'm not sure how you'd go about this one! I'd imagine hover cars might make more of a noise than the ones we have now. That any car should be built in such a way that nothing should ever fall off it or god forbid leak from it - even in the case of an accident.

F**k me Denny is that you? You have put more work into that post than I have done all afternoon

[Moscow Mule]

F**k me Denny is that you? You have put more work into that post than I have done all afternoon

[Charles Foster Kane]

Given the evidence...harsh but fair.

Where's the 'No chance, I don't want to look like a complete tit' option?

[BoredBloke]

F**k me Denny is that you? You have put more work into that post than I have done all afternoon

No the bits in quotes were from Dang - just couldn't be bothered doing the

quote thing