Oh Dear: Is there any other country in Europe where this would cause outrage ?

[Ardesco]

This is the usual approach of the slow or dull witted. Who mentioned the BNP here, do you have anything constructive to say regarding my ideas, go on dive in the water's warm. You never know I may see the light. ??????

I assure you I will not shy away from saying how I feel the majority of the British public feel. It will be invariant as perhaps you will observe if I care to hang around such a place a while longer. That’s a conspiracy theory problem you have, I’d check under the bed for booooogey men if I were you.

I await just one comment in constructive opposition to one single thing I said in my original post.

Ah here we go, an attempt to make you look like the intelectual greater which throwing around insults and ignoring previous comments under the pretext that they were no worthy on commenting on.

You must have a copy of the propoganda manual sitting right in front of you

[Old Greg]

And this isn't anti BNP propaganda because?.....

Answer the damn question. SHOULD BRITS BE SECOND BEST WHEN SOCIAL SECURITY IS BEING HANDED OUT?

It isn't anti BNP propaganda because... Griffin said it in open court!

[URL=http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/roots/1998.stm]

'In 1998 Griffin was convicted for distributing material likely to incite racial hatred and given a nine month sentence suspended for two years.

'During his defence he attacked those who criticised him for denying the Holocaust. "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the world is flat... I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."'

For other details of Griffin's anti-semitism see: http://www.heretical.com/British/mindbend/broad.html NOT WORK SAFE - I've not opened this myself today for that reason but I'm assuming it still works.

As for your 'damn question', my view is that Brits should not be second best when social security is being handed out. There you are, but I guess that's not quite the real question. I understood that the original issue was wider than that in which case: my view is that social security should be available according to need, regardless of whatever test of Britishness may be applied - see, everyone of an even footing. I understand that others will take a different view and we can all debate this politely or not so politely. But when the BNP or its members get involved, we must remember that they are led by a Jew-baiting Holocaust denier and it may be reasonable to deduct from that, that they are exploiting this issue to pursue an alternative agenda. And Margaret Hodge is a fool for playing along.

[The Lone Gunman]

I already answered that in a previous post where I said that it is right that british people should get houses before immigrants no matter what thier race/colour/creed.

Have a read back gunny

Oh sorry, must have missed it.
Now, about that misinformation of yours....

Holocaust denial. Mr Griffin isn't actualy a denier. He has simply asked the question of how many, a question asked by many historians. A question it is now illegal to ask in many Countries.
It is a pertinant question. In my lifetime I have seen the count anywhere between 15 and 6 million put to death by the Nazis. Now that is a hell of a difference. Once you ask this question then others arise leading to a final question of who do these facts and figures serve, and just like your statement about leading you down a path you will find yourself facing a Jewish conspiracy to allow Jews to get away with just about anything, particularly in Isreal.
I dont particularly hold with this theory, but as I have worked (for a number of years) with a man who does, I do understand the argument and the evidence.
What I do agree with him on is the fact that it is a disgrace that people who believe in democracy and freedom of speach would deny those things to people who disagree with them.

I am drifting way off topic here so will shut up unless you need some info.

[Old Greg]

You see, that is the problem. I have been thinking like that for years and I mean years, before I even heard of the BNP.

As I said, you are still failing to answer the bottom line question.
IS IT UNREASONABLE TO PUT OUR OWN FIRST?

BTW You will have to prove that the BNP is a racist organisation or you may find yourself in a spot of legal bovver. You see racism is illegal and to date the BNP is still a legal political party.....

What is the legal 'bovver'?
Racism is not illegal.

[sasguru]

Now on the fraud front sir? Did you see my macro on Generalised Estimating Equations for ordinal responses, which extended Liang and Zegers work back in the mid 90’s before SAS actually incorporated GEE into Genmod? Infact I would welcome your views on how one can trick Genmod to do ordinal repeated measures in a proportional odds fashion without recourse to IML?

Not an expert in that particular area and I am rusty since I took a management role. Plus I'm not sure what you're getting at - but my tuppence worth:
It’s usually fairly cr*p to use GEE when your outcome is binary so I don’t even want to think about doing it with an ordinal variable. Is that what you are getting at? I'm not aware of the need to pre-process the data in IML before using Genmod. If you have a binary outcome measured at several visits the code below fits the GEE model:



proc genmod data=indata descending;

/*****May want to use descending if response=1 and no-response=0 ******/ ;

class subject region trt visit;

model result = region visit trt / d=bin link=logit type3 wald;

repeated subject=subject / type=un;

estimate 'Log(OR) (8mg v MTX) Overall' seq -1 1 / exp e;

run;

[Rantor]

And this isn't anti BNP propaganda because?.....

Answer the damn question. SHOULD BRITS BE SECOND BEST WHEN SOCIAL SECURITY IS BEING HANDED OUT?

No.

But you are getting taken for a ride by a bunch of scumbags.

Do you think that voting for these guys is going to address this issue in a way that is not going to end very badly indeed?

Leaving aside the issue of who is excluded/included from the party and how they would implement all of this, do you never consider what would happen to your own rights and freedoms?

Mismanagement by democratically elected governments is crappy but voting in the hate brigade is a decision that the electorate would have a long time to regret.

[sasguru]

What I do agree with him on is the fact that it is a disgrace that people who believe in democracy and freedom of speach would deny those things to people who disagree with them.

I am drifting way off topic here so will shut up unless you need some info.

History shows us that parties like the BNP will use democracy and freedom of speech only until they can abolish it. Too many members of my family died fighting fascism for me to accept that. And underneath that thin veneer of sophistication lies a bunch of thugs and gangsters.

HTH

[sasguru]

No.

But you are getting taken for a ride by a bunch of scumbags.

Do you think that voting for these guys is going to address this issue in a way that is not going to end very badly indeed?

Leaving aside the issue of who is excluded/included from the party and how they would implement all of this, do you never consider what would happen to your own rights and freedoms?

Mismanagement by democratically elected governments is crappy but voting in the hate brigade is a decision that the electorate would have a long time to regret.

Indeed Rantor.

[Causus Deli]

Ah here we go, an attempt to make you look like the intelectual greater which throwing around insults and ignoring previous comments under the pretext that they were no worthy on commenting on.

You must have a copy of the propoganda manual sitting right in front of you

Any your comment to my original was, apart from BNP bladdy ....

[Old Greg]

Mr Griffin isn't actualy a denier. He has simply asked the question of how many, a question asked by many historians.

Let me repeat the pertinent section of my quotation: 'I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria.'

If that's not denial, what is?

And no, I don't need any more 'info' from you - I've not had any so far.