What happened to the good IT jobs?

[HankWangford]

And what language are the web services running on the other systems written in? Would still be plenty of J2EE work even in that (worst case) scenario. Java's not going anywhere in a hurry, so there's still plenty of £££s for me to make.

the other systems will be written in whatever they are written in now.
Be it vb6, delphi, java, cobol. the future is workflow and connecting all these disparate systems up using wcf and having a nice ajaxy web front-end. There wont be many huge mass system rewrites (eds/government doomed to fail projects aside)

[Cowboy Bob]

wcf and having a nice ajaxy web front-end

Or Java Server Faces and a nice Ajaxy front-end. I happen to be a Java developer, but I see the merits of .NET as well. The way I see it, both technologies are equally as capable as each other - so like you say, Java shops will stay Java shops, and .NET shops will stay .NET shops. There's no real compelling reason to switch, especially with the staff re-training/replacement that would be required.

So, going forward, there's plenty of money to be made with either technology - which can only be a good thing

[HankWangford]

Or Java Server Faces and a nice Ajaxy front-end. I happen to be a Java developer, but I see the merits of .NET as well. The way I see it, both technologies are equally as capable as each other - so like you say, Java shops will stay Java shops, and .NET shops will stay .NET shops. There's no real compelling reason to switch, especially with the staff re-training/replacement that would be required.

So, going forward, there's plenty of money to be made with either technology - which can only be a good thing

pages, faces whats next laces to tie them all up

[Cowboy Bob]

pages, faces whats next laces to tie them all up

I know you're joking, but in case anyone didn't know Java Server Faces is basically the equivalent of WinForms - http://java.sun.com/javaee/javaserve.../overview.html

[HankWangford]

I know you're joking, but in case anyone didn't know Java Server Faces is basically the equivalent of WinForms - http://java.sun.com/javaee/javaserve.../overview.html

just looked on jobserve, java market seems a lot more interesting right now. Guess you don't get as many cowboys unlike the vb6 -> .net framework hacks who will take a £25ph gig and think mvc is a US state

[Francko]

Depends what area you're in. Java/J2EE is booming with rates at least £350 and plenty over £400 - even outside London. A quick search of Jobserve permie roles also shows J2EE is quite healthy with salaries of £60k+ not uncommon.

Booming over £400? Even the crappiest release manager (i.e. all they have to do is sending emails around to confirm the release) can make 500 quid +. Considering the amount of skills you need to be a good developer I don't think the market is really booming at all.

[Cowboy Bob]

Booming over £400? Even the crappiest release manager (i.e. all they have to do is sending emails around to confirm the release) can make 500 quid +. Considering the amount of skills you need to be a good developer I don't think the market is really booming at all.

Yes, but they're being paid more because the work is so tedious. Same with any other "managerial" role. It's boredom money, and the reason I went contracting in the first place - to avoid the endless stream of meetings, e-mail writing and requirements gathering. I'm very happy with my lot. The work is interesting, I'm making plenty of moolah, and the market doesn't look like it's going to slow down anytime soon - quite the opposite in fact.

[Francko]

Yes, but they're being paid more because the work is so tedious. Same with any other "managerial" role. It's boredom money, and the reason I went contracting in the first place - to avoid the endless stream of meetings, e-mail writing and requirements gathering. I'm very happy with my lot. The work is interesting, I'm making plenty of moolah, and the market doesn't look like it's going to slow down anytime soon - quite the opposite in fact.

Problem is that the majority of them are so utterly ignorant that they need help on any single minor stupid issue. What happens as a consequence is that they need to have technical consultants involved in almost all of these boredom activities and meetings. The amounts of hours I am spending in meetings and itil activities is now 2/3 of the time. Perhaps I should do the other third and get a contract as a release manager too.

[Cowboy Bob]

just looked on jobserve, java market seems a lot more interesting right now. Guess you don't get as many cowboys unlike the vb6 -> .net framework hacks who will take a £25ph gig and think mvc is a US state

I've met plenty of cowboys in the Java world as well. Luckily I haven't had to work with many of them very long as all the clients I've had tended to find them out pretty quickly and send them packing.

[Cowboy Bob]

Problem is that the majority of them are so utterly ignorant that they need help on any single minor stupid issue. What happens as a consequence is that they need to have technical consultants involved in almost all of these boredom activities and meetings. The amounts of hours I am spending in meetings and itil activities is now 2/3 of the time. Perhaps I should do the other third and get a contract as a release manager too.

At my current client I'm lucky that all the management (up to department managers) are all ex-techies who are pretty clued up and are perfectly capable of contributing in a technical way should the need arise. Meetings tend to be held round desks too, so no interminable whiteboard discussions either. And best of all, they leave me to get on with my work and trust me to design it and code it correctly. It's a pretty decent environment all in all.