No Smoking Ever

[jainnode]

...... and FOG

[Guy At Charnock Richard]

"Common sense" would say ingesting and injecting all kinds of chemicals into your body can't be good for you but doctors routinely prescribe some really quite noxious things which are. Medicine is data driven not by 'common sense'... look at medicine historically if you want to be horrified what even medical 'experts'; of the past thought was "common sense".

Are you really saying it's not been proven how dangerous nicotine alone is?

I don't know if you remember that consumer affairs programme fronted by Esther Rantzen back in the 80s but I remember them campaigning against the targeting of younger age groups by the company who produce Skoal Bandits.

They are basically a sweet or gum containing nicotine which had a track record of causing mouth cancers among adult users so that suggests maybe nicotine alone is harmful. Not sure if those particular sweets are just nicotine based or are actually some kind of chewable tobacco, in which case there'd be a whole load of other compounds at play.

[d000hg]

It hasn't been proven either way but using common sense how can deliberately inhaling anything but air in to your lungs be good for you?

"Common sense" would say ingesting and injecting all kinds of chemicals into your body can't be good for you but doctors routinely prescribe some really quite noxious things which are. Medicine is data driven not by 'common sense'... look at medicine historically if you want to be horrified what even medical 'experts'; of the past thought was "common sense".

Are you really saying it's not been proven how dangerous nicotine alone is?

[Zigenare]

Is nicotine in vaping form still particularly dangerous? As a non-smoker I had always assumed 90% of the problem was the smoking, not the nicotine? Note I didn't say "does it have ANY ill effects" but comparatively.

Check out the following...

[SueEllen]

Is nicotine in vaping form still particularly dangerous? As a non-smoker I had always assumed 90% of the problem was the smoking, not the nicotine? Note I didn't say "does it have ANY ill effects" but comparatively.

It hasn't been proven either way but using common sense how can deliberately inhaling anything but air in to your lungs be good for you? Also outside Europe the vapes themselves can be dangerous - https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_in...g-disease.html

[d000hg]

Exactly - very few of us are doing everything within our power to stay as healthy as we can.

Having said that, I suppose if there are some treatments that simply aren't worth doing if you continue to smoke (or stay fat, or whatever), then it might be ethical. But the fundamental principle of everyone receiving the same level of care regardless must be maintained.

They do apply this to transplants I suppose which is probably reasonable when supply is so limited.

Back in the 60s as part of my science studies I watched an autopsy of someone who was a smoker. The lungs were removed and were black and sticky and covered in tar. That is what physically happens to all smokers. There is no need to speculate on the consequential illness caused by this. BTW, one student vomited, another student fainted. The cleaner your lungs, the more likely you will cough and get irritated by smoke.

People routinely faint and vomit seeing healthy innards too, that's not exactly a good metric. But yeah it's quite remarkable how visible the effects are.

[Paddy]

Is nicotine in vaping form still particularly dangerous? As a non-smoker I had always assumed 90% of the problem was the smoking, not the nicotine? Note I didn't say "does it have ANY ill effects" but comparatively.

Back in the 60s as part of my science studies I watched an autopsy of someone who was a smoker. The lungs were removed and were black and sticky and covered in tar. That is what physically happens to all smokers. There is no need to speculate on the consequential illness caused by this. BTW, one student vomited, another student fainted. The cleaner your lungs, the more likely you will cough and get irritated by smoke.

[Guy At Charnock Richard]

Is nicotine in vaping form still particularly dangerous? As a non-smoker I had always assumed 90% of the problem was the smoking, not the nicotine? Note I didn't say "does it have ANY ill effects" but comparatively.

As far as I'm aware, it's not the nicotine itself that is harmful, it is over other chemicals in vapes that questions have been raised. I guess we don't have the data because it hasn't been around long enough .

[mattster]

I definitely think the idea of withholding care is totally unacceptable. It goes against the entire fabric of our national culture and the principle of the NHS.
I think anyone who smokes is an idiot but then I drink more than the NHS says I should and eat kebabs and don't exercise enough.

Exactly - very few of us are doing everything within our power to stay as healthy as we can.

Having said that, I suppose if there are some treatments that simply aren't worth doing if you continue to smoke (or stay fat, or whatever), then it might be ethical. But the fundamental principle of everyone receiving the same level of care regardless must be maintained.

[d000hg]

I definitely think the idea of withholding care is totally unacceptable. It goes against the entire fabric of our national culture and the principle of the NHS.
I think anyone who smokes is an idiot but then I drink more than the NHS says I should and eat kebabs and don't exercise enough.