Off to India

[darmstadt]

Johnson is, that is and here is the latest missive from the press corps (FT) with him:

Live from the Johnson plane over Iran, PM says Britain needs "hundreds of thousands" of new workers - particularly in IT and programming. Hint of more visas for Indians ahead of his visit to Gujarat and Delhi

[SimonMac]

KUATB

[d000hg]

If you're scared of cheap overseas labour, you need to upskill.

[vetran]

If you're scared of cheap overseas labour, you need to upskill.

That is the sort of racist bollox people who have never been impacted by this talk.

Upskill - Maybe become a truck driver? Or hospitality staff because being a chef in a top restaurant pays so well?

Our Indian cousins number in the billion, their top 10% of academic achievement could fill all the jobs in the UK at half price. Same for China.

They are no longer cheap & cheerful they are clever and well priced.

I worked for a Multinational who had a significant investment of in house Indian based IT resources (then they moved to offshoring accountancy & HR etc) some of the guys there were really impressive and were guiding the IT for a multi billion dollar business.

[d000hg]

That is the sort of racist bollox people who have never been impacted by this talk.

How on earth is it racist?

So you are advocating for protectionism?

[vetran]

How on earth is it racist?

So you are advocating for protectionism?

Suggesting that upskilling will prevent Indian's getting your jobs because they are not going to be as good as you might be a clue, its obvious many are.

I'm suggesting our government reduces the risk of us being paid minimum wage so some rich Indian can pay less tax in the UK while depriving India of their cleverest people.

[d000hg]

Upskill doesn't just mean "do an online C# course" it means move into higher level skills. Code monkeys are two a penny.

[SueEllen]

Upskill doesn't just mean "do an online C# course" it means move into higher level skills. Code monkeys are two a penny.

Indians aren't just code monkeys. I've worked with some very clever and capable Indian people who were born, brought up and even live in India.

The problem is the latter part. You can't complete with people who live in a place with a much lower cost of living.

[malvolio]

Based on my own fairly wide experience, the problem I have with the Indian offshore consultancies is not that they are bad but their business model is to drive as much revenue earning as possible. So don't correct faulty code, rewrite the whole application, don't upgrade older systems but offer a whole new installation (plus hardware, as often as not) and emergent technology. In other words, get their maximum income rather than your maximum value for money. Add ot that the mysterious growth in their on-site presence for each new project, notable because the existing team are still there.

Obviously the UK-based companies do the same - no business is a charity after all - but at least they are willing to listen to your requirement first.

It may have changed in the few years since I left work but I doubt it. They can be cost effective, but it is an uphill struggle; you wind up spending more time managing them than you do managing your department.

And always remember, without the entry level code monkey jobs that they are absorbing, you high grade heroes with the niche skills would never have got started...

[d000hg]

Indians aren't just code monkeys. I've worked with some very clever and capable Indian people who were born, brought up and even live in India.

Me too, but they weren't working for major outsourcing factories. They were living and working in UK/US/etc because their skills enabled them to - Covid has a changed a lot but people still care about being able to interact with their colleagues. Or at the very least they were working for companies who had hired them directly.

The problem is the latter part. You can't complete with people who live in a place with a much lower cost of living.

You mean like London/SE Vs the rest of the UK? That is a huge disparity - you might get £30k in the NE when you could earn £50k in London - but it hasn't put London-centric businesses out of business, and most have resisted the desire to substantially use onshoring. Again maybe Covid will have a long-term impact on that.