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November Budget - Stop Public sector IR35 rules coming into the Private sector

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  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by Lost It View Post
    I have Dukes stage 3 cancer. So not brilliant health. Others are healthier, but as a rule of thumb, the older you are, the more prone you are to not being 100% healthy. Goes with the trade, it's by definittion hard on you as a youngster, many are ex Brickies, ex Joiners, ex Sparkies, not jobs that are good to your joints. I'm an ex miner, and that job definitely screws you up... We are effectively passing on our years of "knowing what we know". That's where our worth comes from.
    If you are willing to be in the media then contact TheFaQQer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antman
    replied
    Agree, being a plumber in your fifties and having to get underneath sinks and drains is a tough gig.

    Sorry to hear about your illness, I hope it sorts itself out soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lost It
    replied
    Originally posted by Antman View Post
    Admirable, it's already been sent but I'm adding this in case anyone wanted to use it as a template.

    My question if I received it would be, these projects would still go ahead except you would be working in a company that paid the correct amount of tax, so how is it a complete disaster? No. I've been "Requested" due to past works completed. And frankly I wouldn't travel that far for £40-45k.. I would seek work closer to home, and there isn't as much of it.

    If the salary is too low then companies would have to pay more (if the demand is there). This would put the costs up quite substantially, prelims etc. Most business is won on costs unfortunately, even now. If they "upped my rate" the rest of the Permies might well ask for parity? The demand is there, just look at the skyline in London at how many cranes you can see.

    I wouldn't believe that you and your mates stop all economic activity. We wouldn't be able to afford the costs of travelling. The Freelance rates reflect the job, same as any trade. So no it wouldn't stop, but it would have to be people local to the works. And if there are people there that can do this, that are available, I'd argue that the case for "importing" me isn't necessary. I see your point. But practically, there aren't that many with the same qualifications, experience, abilities as us old farts.

    So they'd be "teething problems" but that's it. I'd have gone for the angle of the risk we carry, you are successful others not so, you have I assume good health others not so. When there is no work, there is no money and for that we charge a (small) premium.
    I have Dukes stage 3 cancer. So not brilliant health. Others are healthier, but as a rule of thumb, the older you are, the more prone you are to not being 100% healthy. Goes with the trade, it's by definition hard on you as a youngster, many are ex Brickies, ex Joiners, ex Sparkies, not jobs that are good to your joints. I'm an ex miner, and that job definitely screws you up... We are effectively passing on our years of "knowing what we know". That's where our worth comes from. To be fair I find that some of the managers tend to be the "Sit in the office bashing away at keyboard" types these days, especially the permie ones. As a Contractor your last job completed is the one you are judged on, so you have to work to a standard all the time. Good ones noted in sand. bad ones chiseled into granite as they say.
    Last edited by Lost It; 16 November 2017, 23:57.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesbrown
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladyuk View Post
    It needs someone who's not making that much money. 100k + will get no sympathy. Maybe PC could do it - heart warming tale of unemployed bloke from the Valleys who picks himself up to travel long distances for a public sector BAU desktop support role, but can't claim expenses. That kind of thing.
    What about the JSA? Don't mention the war?

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladyuk
    replied
    Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Yes. But it needs someone to stand up and be counted, to put a face to the story and be prepared to speak up - individuals get stories, a homogeneous group of tax avoiders do not. That's why I've spoken to The Times, Sunday Times and Financial Times in the past. That's why I've written in The Guardian in the past - because we need people to stand up and be counted.

    If you, or anyone you know, is prepared to speak out about it then that's brilliant - particularly if you work in the NHS or in security cleared environments. Let me know and I'll put you in touch.
    It needs someone who's not making that much money. 100k + will get no sympathy. Maybe PC could do it - heart warming tale of unemployed bloke from the Valleys who picks himself up to travel long distances for a public sector BAU desktop support role, but can't claim expenses. That kind of thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antman
    replied
    Originally posted by Lost It View Post
    My letter to my MP. The IPSE one didn't really say what I needed to put across. I was going to suggest that if MP's were subject to the same rules I could live with that..

    "Dear Mr Mak


    I appreciate that this is nothing more than Rumour at the moment. But:

    I am resident on Hayling Island, due to my skill set I travel to London on a daily basis to build, improve and maintain various facilities within London, my three latest projects in chronological order were the Institute of Mechanical Engineers at Birdcage Walk, the Science Museum on Exhibition Road, and I am currently working at the Royal Pharmaceutical Society on East Smithfield, all three positions have been as Site Manager, apparently I’m good at my job and my skills are required.

    I’m also a member of ICE. This week I was interviewed for a project at HMP Bullingdon, which would require me travelling most days due to the nature of the works. As it is I commute to London every day, by Motorcycle to keep my emissions footprint as low as possible and have the least effect on congestion. It’s even a Euro 4 model bike that I use.

    I’m self employed, through a Ltd Company, I collect VAT, pay my taxes on time, and effectively support a few other people within my works, should IR35 rules come into force, I would not be able to carry on offering the services I supply within the construction industry.

    I urge you to PLEASE take this up with the Chancellor before he destroys what’s left of the flexible professional work force this country so badly needs. I have no doubt that the “Skills shortage” would become a “Skills Dearth” within construction should this ruinous policy change be introduced.

    I have friends working Cross rail, friends working on the clock tower at Parliament right now who will need to cease working as they are literally in the same boat as I am.

    It would be a complete disaster where I am sat. Plus, I guess, the Chancellor would lose all that Fuel tax as I wouldn’t need to travel any more...

    Best Regards"
    Admirable, it's already been sent but I'm adding this in case anyone wanted to use it as a template.

    My question if I received it would be, these projects would still go ahead except you would be working in a company that paid the correct amount of tax, so how is it a complete disaster?

    If the salary is too low then companies would have to pay more (if the demand is there).

    I wouldn't believe that you and your mates stop all economic activity.

    So they'd be "teething problems" but that's it. I'd have gone for the angle of the risk we carry, you are successful others not so, you have I assume good health others not so. When there is no work, there is no money and for that we charge a (small) premium.

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by Lost It View Post
    My letter to my MP. The IPSE one didn't really say what I needed to put across.
    Nice letter as it is personalised.

    Hopefully your MP will get back to you as quickly as mine did and if he doesn't forward it to the Treasury ask him to.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheFaQQer
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladyuk View Post
    Doesn't anyone have contacts with someone in the Mail or Express to put together a frothing at the mouth Middle Britain / hard pressed self-employed / backbone of the country kind of story?
    Yes. But it needs someone to stand up and be counted, to put a face to the story and be prepared to speak up - individuals get stories, a homogeneous group of tax avoiders do not. That's why I've spoken to The Times, Sunday Times and Financial Times in the past. That's why I've written in The Guardian in the past - because we need people to stand up and be counted.

    If you, or anyone you know, is prepared to speak out about it then that's brilliant - particularly if you work in the NHS or in security cleared environments. Let me know and I'll put you in touch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lost It
    replied
    Just sent this.

    My letter to my MP. The IPSE one didn't really say what I needed to put across. I was going to suggest that if MP's were subject to the same rules I could live with that..

    "Dear Mr Mak


    I appreciate that this is nothing more than Rumour at the moment. But:

    I am resident on Hayling Island, due to my skill set I travel to London on a daily basis to build, improve and maintain various facilities within London, my three latest projects in chronological order were the Institute of Mechanical Engineers at Birdcage Walk, the Science Museum on Exhibition Road, and I am currently working at the Royal Pharmaceutical Society on East Smithfield, all three positions have been as Site Manager, apparently I’m good at my job and my skills are required.

    I’m also a member of ICE. This week I was interviewed for a project at HMP Bullingdon, which would require me travelling most days due to the nature of the works. As it is I commute to London every day, by Motorcycle to keep my emissions footprint as low as possible and have the least effect on congestion. It’s even a Euro 4 model bike that I use.

    I’m self employed, through a Ltd Company, I collect VAT, pay my taxes on time, and effectively support a few other people within my works, should IR35 rules come into force, I would not be able to carry on offering the services I supply within the construction industry.

    I urge you to PLEASE take this up with the Chancellor before he destroys what’s left of the flexible professional work force this country so badly needs. I have no doubt that the “Skills shortage” would become a “Skills Dearth” within construction should this ruinous policy change be introduced.

    I have friends working Cross rail, friends working on the clock tower at Parliament right now who will need to cease working as they are literally in the same boat as I am.

    It would be a complete disaster where I am sat. Plus, I guess, the Chancellor would lose all that Fuel tax as I wouldn’t need to travel any more...

    Best Regards"

    Leave a comment:


  • Guesstimator
    replied
    Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Arguing on numbers is difficult for people to understand - particularly when the headline percentages aren't in line. That's true whether you are trying to explain to a permie, a journalist, an MP or anyone else.

    Where the argument can be made that people understand is around what we have to pay for that they don't - holiday pay, sick pay, jury duty cover, pensions, maternity / paternity pay, insurance, risk that the clients disappear without paying.

    And each of those has a "human interest" element to it that people can relate to.
    I agree with you, but even any discussions around the difference in working conditions is just stonewalled. The money you earn vs the money they earn dominates their viewpoint.

    For me the baldest/easiest number to respond with when people argue "you're not paying your fair of tax" is the total amount of tax paid when comparing any given individual's circumstances as PAYE vs circumstance as Ltd. I know it's a simplistic argument but it avoids the subjectivity of what "fair" means to different people and actually opens up the crux of their objections which are, effectively, envy.

    It's always going to be a tough sell to the general public frankly, because really it just comes down to envy that contractors can take home more and envy that contractors are more in control of their working practices and life.

    When mates/colleagues have a go at me for operating under Ltd and I suggest that there's no reason they couldn't do the same they suddenly become the pinnacles of morality to defend why they wouldn't do that, suddenly becoming intensely proud of paying as much tax as they can. It's bollocks and they know it, but if they admitted to themselves why they can't do it (they're scared/comfortable) they'd blow their own argument out of the water on why I have the opportunity to earn more than them/they have the opportunity to be more secure and have benefits and therefore why there's a perceived pay discrepancy that actually isn't there.
    Hell, even my other half uses it against me in arguments every so often.

    Getting people onside isn't about convincing them that contractors are hard done by, it's about demonstrating that the main reason clients use contractors is because it saves them money....if that flexible workforce goes, and that avenue to cost saving goes, who's going to make up the shortfall? Joseph and Josephine Public, that's who. Whether it from increased costs, or reduced services (as is evident in the public sector, eg TfL postponing projects).

    Leave a comment:

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