So I was speaking to an Italian recruitment agent yesterday.

[FatLazyContractor]

Not only that but I have a 'beautiful' accent, apparently.

My bonnie lassie.

Yeah, no one asked you to fake a Welsh accent, did they?

[scooterscot]

It is odd how the EU, referred by some as the EUSSR after a the USSR dictatorship when the EU structure itself is fas from fascist. In fact it's is hard to see any justification for calling the EU fascists:

Commissioners - appointed for fixed term by democratically elected governments
(Commission = civil service, like the civil service in the UK)
MEPs directly elected for a fixed term by the population of each member country
President of the Council - selected by the democratically elected heads of state for a fixed term
Proposed legislation is discussed by representatives of democratically elected member states and then agreed by the Ministers of those governments before being amended or adopted by the directly elected members of the European Parliament.

Last I heard fascists aren't keen on fixed terms, elections or discussing things in committee - all of which underpin the EU. Yes, all this consensus work between those democratically elected governments does make agreements slower, which is another of Brexit's complaints, but you can't have it all ways.

[FatLazyContractor]

WHY?

Have you got me on ignore? Do you read my posts?

[scooterscot]

WHY?

You'll find out on your next holiday to France upon Brexit.

[VectraMan]

Mainland Europeans view the EU as primarily away to prevent their countries being destroyed as in the wars of 1914-1918 and 1939 - 1945.

For them it is primarily a way to ensure that Germany and France co-exist in peace.

I'm not sure how true that is, but I get the impression mainland europeans are a little more interested in what actually goes on in Brussels, whereas here we practically never hear anything. And that makes it very easy for the Express, Mail and career advancing politicians to make up their own fantasy version that the sheep line up to believe. If what happened in Brussels was on the news every day we wouldn't be having a referendum, if for no other reason than we'd all be bored of hearing about it.

[DodgyAgent]

That message can be touted until the cows come home. Only the brexiters recognise this. For the majority if Europeans, Europe = EU. The idea the UK can enjoy the same relationship outside the EU with Europeans is misguided.

It is not misguided. I was watching Theo Paphitis (he of ryman and dragons den fame) argue the point of sovereignty very well. He also said it is ridiculous that a country like the Uk with its history, rule of law and entrepreneurial spirit would not flourish outside of the UKEU.

Why we need a bunch of unelected bureaucrats with not a job or wealth creation bone in any one of their useless bodies determine our future is ridiculous. it is amazing what human beings can achieve when they want to. kick the EU out and replacing it would be easy. it is quite pathetic that we should listen to those scared people who simply do not like change. The world is full of them and most are jobsworth permies. Not what you would expect of your typical confident risk taking IT contractor.

[NotAllThere]

If Britain leaves the EU it will still be part of Europe!

So are the Swiss European?

Yes and yes.

In context, however, EU and Europe often indicate the same thing. The latter being shorthand for the former. Hence "Do we want to be in Europe" = "Do we want to remain in the EU".

Both sides are "guilty" of the same imprecision.

[WTFH]

Yeah, no one asked you to fake a Welsh accent, did they?

Yeah, a German Shepherd Dog.

[original PM]

We will remain geographically a part of Europe (although not a part of continental Europe) unless we can pick up the country and move it - no one is looking for a change of geographical boundaries.

We would prefer not to be a part of the EU and we would prefer to manage our own country ourselves.

[scooterscot]

It is not misguided. I was watching Theo Paphitis (he of ryman and dragons den fame) argue the point of sovereignty very well. He also said it is ridiculous that a country like the Uk with its history, rule of law and entrepreneurial spirit would not flourish outside of the Uk.

Why we need a bunch of unelected bureaucrats with not a job or wealth creation bone in any one of their useless bodies determine our future is ridiculous. it is amazing what human beings can achieve when they want to. kick the EU out and replacing it would be easy. it is quite pathetic that we should listen to those scared people who simply do not like change. The world is full of them and most are jobsworth permies. Not what you would expect of your typical confident risk taking IT contractor.

Firstly the bureaucrats are not unelected. You had a hand in putting them there when your voted Tory. Each country is represented by member their government selects.

Secondly, the UK has never had to give up any sovereignty being part if the EU. It continues to be in control of it's own borders (although it does a piss poor job of it and blames everyone else). We're the only member the dots every 'i' and crosses every 't'. We really need to lighten up.