Council & Agency have colluded not to Furlough me

[oilboil]

Please stop posting such rubbish.

The client pays the fee to the agency. The agency deducts their percentage, leaving the notional fee. They then make all the PAYE deductions, including erNIC, and hand over to the worker what's left. The fact that the erNIC comes out of a the notional fee is utterly irrelevant. Legally, the worker is an employee of the agency. Just as it would be if the worker had gone through an umbrella company.

And in your description of the process you are correct, the poster said they "paid" the employer NI, that makes them an employer not the employee (hint - it's right there in the name of the deduction)

[NotAllThere]

No - if you are paying employers NI you aren't an employee, you are a contingent resource using their payroll processing service. If you were an actual employee they would pay the employers NI as they are your employer. I can't see a staffer at Accenture being asked to pay the employers NI due on their salary, can you?

Please stop posting such rubbish.

The client pays the fee to the agency. The agency deducts their percentage, leaving the notional fee. They then make all the PAYE deductions, including erNIC, and hand over to the worker what's left. The fact that the erNIC comes out of a the notional fee is utterly irrelevant. Legally, the worker is an employee of the agency. Just as it would be if the worker had gone through an umbrella company.

[oilboil]

I pay employees and employers National Insurance contributions. So I would think I am an employee of the agency??

No - if you are paying employers NI you aren't an employee, you are a contingent resource using their payroll processing service. If you were an actual employee they would pay the employers NI as they are your employer. I can't see a staffer at Accenture being asked to pay the employers NI due on their salary, can you?

[Mr S T]

The can only furlough employees and you aren't an employee surely...

I pay employees and employers National Insurance contributions. So I would think I am an employee of the agency??

[northernladuk]

hmm yes I suppose. But OK client says take 3 months off (and you've got 5 month left). What would you do?

I'd be straight off getting another gig. Then if I got one handing in notice if I could on the first one. If there was no notice period then its more complicated of course.

Apply MOO and say no thanks in 3 months?

I dont think any of us would sit at home and suck up the 3 months....

Oh I'm totally with you on that. Just pointing out technically then can. Most clients do it over xmas so it's the same thing, just 3 months. Fat chance anyone would stick around for that I agree.

Was just being pedantic about the wording..

they can tell contractors they're not needed for 3 months then they are still obliged to come back if requested

This bit is correct, they can. While in contract they withdraw for a period and the contractor will be obliged to come back and fulfil their obligations as part of the agree piece of work. Like xmas but for 3 months. There are obligations around the contracted piece of work. MoO is about things outside of that.

The reality is, as you stay, no one in their right mind would stick around. They'd get another gig, give notice and leave.

[psychocandy]

Technically the can if the contract is long enough.....

hmm yes I suppose. But OK client says take 3 months off (and you've got 5 month left). What would you do?

I'd be straight off getting another gig. Then if I got one handing in notice if I could on the first one. If there was no notice period then its more complicated of course.

Apply MOO and say no thanks in 3 months?

I dont think any of us would sit at home and suck up the 3 months....

[northernladuk]

They aren't allowed to charge for these things if you are on furlough - it's in black and white in the rules.

He'll get the message.... Eventually.

[oilboil]

I would have gladly paid their overheads if they asked me, and Im sure 100% of other contractors would do the same as getting some furlough help is better then nothing.

They aren't allowed to charge for these things if you are on furlough - it's in black and white in the rules.

[northernladuk]

I would have gladly paid their overheads if they asked me, and Im sure 100% of other contractors would do the same as getting some furlough help is better then nothing.

The can only furlough employees and you aren't an employee surely...

[Mr S T]

They could have, but it costs them to process payroll and they have other costs like apprentice levy that the furlough doesn't pay. So they'd be paying out of their pockets to allow them to furlough him. It wouldn't be much but if they have lots of people on this type of payment process it would quickly mount up

I would have gladly paid their overheads if they asked me, and Im sure 100% of other contractors would do the same as getting some furlough help is better then nothing.