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Ipse Welcomes - government “historic lifeline to contractors”

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    #41
    Originally posted by CheeseSlice View Post
    Me too, and being highly risk averse I made the choice to build a large enough warchest to survive this, but not forever. I've had years to prepare, and not everyone is in the same boat and will be hard hit by this.

    Its interesting when you think about what has just happened. I don't see our situation as normal 'risks of running a business'.

    The government has effectively halted the normal functioning of our economy in response to the crisis. This has never happened before in living memory.
    They are very afraid of this creating a deep recession, a liquidity trap and deflation which will be disastrous and difficult to get out of. They have decided to mitigate from the damage the intervention is already creating by creating liquidity, protecting jobs, protecting businesses. They've effectively bailed out or nationalised large portions of the economy and are putting the income tax system into reverse to stave off mass unemployment, loan defaults, etc.

    This is an intervention that nobody has seen before, and nobody outside of government and BoE has any control over. Normal market forces certainly didn't bring this on, and they wont bring us out of it without first switching off the restrictions (shutting down shops, limiting movement, etc) that have halted the normal economy.

    Much larger businesses than ours are not having to accept the full risk of this intervention. Instead of laying off employees, they're able to retain some of them through the governments coronavirus mitigation package. Thinking longer term, if these restrictions carry on (e.g. 1-2 years), then many of us, no matter how large a warchest you have will ultimately be wiped out. So why shouldn't PSC contractors be eligible for protection also?
    What you are describing is a business that is no longer viable. You still have choices, I suspect you are more able to attain employment than others if your business prospects don't improve in 1-2 years.

    FWIW this will pass quicker than the financial crash (IMHO) as it's been caused my non-monetary reasons, once they disappear we'll start to return to normal more quickly. There will be cheap money, lots to do and nobody will learn a thing from it....
    https://uk.linkedin.com/in/andyhallett

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      #42
      Originally posted by Andy Hallett View Post
      What you are describing is a business that is no longer viable. You still have choices, I suspect you are more able to attain employment than others if your business prospects don't improve in 1-2 years.

      FWIW this will pass quicker than the financial crash (IMHO) as it's been caused my non-monetary reasons, once they disappear we'll start to return to normal more quickly. There will be cheap money, lots to do and nobody will learn a thing from it....
      There will be cheap money and a lot to do but I strongly suspect people won't be rushing to spend it the way they used to.
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

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        #43
        Petition . Limited companies to receive the same as self employed and employees during coronavirus. . Change.org

        Doesn’t look very encouraging.

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          #44
          People are idiots and never see the bigger picture.

          The phrase be careful what you wish for as it may come true has rarely been so apt.
          merely at clientco for the entertainment

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            #45
            Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
            It is far better for society as a whole - especially young. Oldies have had their own way for too long.
            What do you classify as an "oldie"?

            And what would have been your answer 10 years ago?

            I find the answer typically changes but can follow a formula of the form "{my} age + 20 years"

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              #46
              Originally posted by eek View Post
              People are idiots and never see the bigger picture.

              The phrase be careful what you wish for as it may come true has rarely been so apt.
              +1. Expecting/wanting dividends to be covered is wrong on so many levels.

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                #47
                Originally posted by Andy Hallett View Post
                And here is the truth:

                3. This is the big one. If Ltd Co contractors had been included in the package we would have lost the IR35 argument FOREVER. If you don't believe me look at what the Chancellor said about sole trader national insurance rates the announcement

                You are either running a business or you are not.

                And before anyone gets on their high horse, I started my Consultancy as a Limited Company on 3rd March. I understand and accept the risks and rewards of running a business.
                BUT the Chancellor, HMRC et al were , until few weeks back were crying out loud in public/parliament that 95% of the contractors / Ltd. co people were disguised employees just getting salaries (and hence not REAL dividends)!!!

                Now they are saying these same disguised salaries (their words) - i i.e. "dividends", are return on investment?????
                Disgusting!!!!!

                The govt. cannot have their argument both ways, can they!!!... well maybe they can. We voted this lot in truck loads, didn't we!!!!

                As for keeping the IR35 argument... its not going to be relevant in the future anyway!
                Come next year this time, most of us won't be in business.

                So, IPSE have not argued well with the govt., I would say.

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                  #48
                  Originally posted by CosmicWave View Post
                  BUT the Chancellor, HMRC et al were , until few weeks back were crying out loud in public/parliament that 95% of the contractors / Ltd. co people were disguised employees just getting salaries (and hence not REAL dividends)!!!

                  Now they are saying these same disguised salaries (their words) - i i.e. "dividends", are return on investment?????
                  Disgusting!!!!!

                  The govt. cannot have their argument both ways, can they!!!... well maybe they can. We voted this lot in truck loads, didn't we!!!!

                  As for keeping the IR35 argument... its not going to be relevant in the future anyway!
                  Come next year this time, most of us won't be in business.

                  So, IPSE have not argued well with the govt., I would say.
                  Of course they can - you are pure and simple a tax avoider and should be paying "your fair share". That's the way HMRC see it. And most of the public.

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                    #49
                    I get the argument. And at the moment, I don't need the money and would rather it go to those that do. I'll take the mortgage holiday and consider that a bump.

                    It's not like I was hoping to get any clients in March anyway.

                    There will be times when we don't win, just as with sick pay. You must take the rough with the smooth.

                    If you disagree: Petition . Small Ltd Company Directors to get Government support like the Employed and Self Employed . Change.org
                    Last edited by PerfectStorm; 27 March 2020, 14:08.

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                      #50
                      a real business, with employees and all the rest, will gain some help from the government. They will be able to retain their furloughed staff with an 80% wage subsidy. They will also get relief on rent and rates.

                      But a real business has other problems.
                      - Customers or lack of for one.
                      - Directors and shareholders desires.
                      - destroyed economy.

                      There is no help for these problems.
                      Those that think the govt should bail out their LTD. for the benefit of their own pocket don't see the difference. And that is the root of the IR35 problem. They're not real businesses. Self-employed maybe.

                      I for one have no desire for a bail out to subsidise my business. I have customers, and some have less work for me now, and others have more work for me now.
                      In any case, if the government were to assist LTD. companies most of us would still fail the under £50k profit cutoff. And if you've over £50k profit, for three years on the bounce, and have not enough ability to survive 3-6 months then you're ******* idiots......
                      The bail out will only last as long as the virus crisis and that's likely (fingers crossed) to be done in 6 months.
                      See You Next Tuesday

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