Should I bill for days I was told not to attend?

[northernladuk]

But this wouldn't come as a surprise and out of the blue, would it? You'd either be told that you're not required on specific days or you'd ask about that during the interview. Such things are usually planned well in advance.

What we're talking about here is a "normal working day" whereby you're expected to be on-site and working for the client but being told, at incredibly short notice, that you're not required - go home - don't invoice me.

Think about the lawyers again. A lawyer knows he's not going to work on Xmas day so he doesn't bill for that - it's expected he won't work on Xmas Day. If, however, he turns up at your home/office on a normal working Tuesday morning after you've specifically instructed him to do work on your behalf, but you then tell him to piss off as he's not required for the day, you will certainly still get billed for it.

Trust me, I've worked for lawyers. There is nothing they won't bill for.

We are not lawyers so that argument is out.

I hardly think being given notice of the requirement makes any difference whatsoever to the contractual arrangements. The single principle is you don't work so can't get paid. You won't be able to argue the fact they told you in advance or anything. It doesn't say in the contract and you can't argue that one on principle either. The only thing you have to go on here is that you are caught by surprise, hardly justification to bill for nothing.

[billybiro]

Fascinating. 14 years of IR35 case law and precedent and we still have this total lack of understanding of Mutuality. The "bill-and-be-damned" crowd probably should be, but the test is an irreducible minimum of mutuality of obligation. Being paid for not working is not the minimum, regardless of why you are not working.

Seriously, if you don't understand the logic, stop arguing. My ribs won't take much more.

Yes, but this only matters when, and indeed if, you're investigated for IR35. Until then, you've done yourself out of a day's pay and sent a clear message to the client that it's perfectly fine for them to mess you around whenever they damn well please. And if you give them an inch.....

[billybiro]

We are not lawyers so that argument is out.

Why is the argument invalid?

Is contract law different for lawyers?

[northernladuk]

Why is the argument invalid?

Is contract law different for lawyers?

The relationship is different, same when we use the argument about builders etc. We can't cherry pick the bits we want to prove and forget the whole business model and arrangement is different.

[billybiro]

The relationship is different, same when we use the argument about builders etc. We can't cherry pick the bits we want to prove and forget the whole business model and arrangement is different.

Ok, then explain to me precisely what is different that allows builders, lawyers etc. to bill you when you decide they're not wanted.

Once you've done that, explain to me how those very same differences couldn't possibly ever apply to an IT contractor.

[Old Greg]

Best thing to do next time would be to negotiate a minimum 48 hour cancellation period with a day's fee paid if <48 hours notice given.

[northernladuk]

Ok, then explain to me precisely what is different that allows builders, lawyers etc. to bill you when you decide they're not wanted.

Once you've done that, explain to me how those very same differences couldn't possibly ever apply to an IT contractor.

I don't even think you first statement is true so can't go any further past that. They are just different types of business that have different terms of engagement (if any), different deliverables, relationship, expectations and so on.

[billybiro]

The relationship is different, same when we use the argument about builders etc. We can't cherry pick the bits we want to prove and forget the whole business model and arrangement is different.

Also, by your rationale (and I appreciate this is an extreme example, but a legitimate one nonetheless), a client could contract you for 6 months, then tell you on the first day you turn up on site that you're not required and to go home, only to repeat this every single day of the 6 month contract.

So you'd turn up at the client's front door only to have to immediately go home again, never actually doing any "work" for the client, but being kept on it's leash and being danced a merry dance every single day for 6 months. And you don't get to invoice for a single penny.

And you'd accept this?

[billybiro]

I don't even think you first statement is true so can't go any further past that. They are just different types of business that have different terms of engagement (if any), different deliverables, relationship, expectations and so on.

But all are still governed by the same contract law, no?

So I ask again, why can't we (IT) do it if a lawyer can?

[Old Greg]

But all are still governed by the same contract law, no?

So I ask again, why can't we (IT) do it if a lawyer can?

Of course you can. Invoke your late cancellation charge clause.