"We must opt you out of the Conduct of Employment Agencies Regs 2003...

[expat]

Why the bad vibes for Gentile? surely shes got a right to expect not to be abused on here. Some of the abuse on here is pathetic.

I agree. She has a lot of interesting input but for some reason seemed to attract abuse from the start. So I'm in the Gentile fan club.

[speling bee]

Apparently every single contractor they've ever dealt with has opted out yes, that has always been my experience too: they have never heard of a contractor not opting out.

Do the slimy toerags ever tell the truth, or do they not understand the concept?

They clearly understand the concept of truth or they would not be able to so consistently lie.

However, from memory, didn't someone (Cojak?) post that agencies can decline to contract with your Ltd unless you agree to opt out?

[captainham]

They clearly understand the concept of truth or they would not be able to so consistently lie.

However, from memory, didn't someone (Cojak?) post that agencies can decline to contract with your Ltd unless you agree to opt out?

An agency can decline to contract with anyone they choose for any reason they choose, doesn't have to just be about the opt-out.

Depends on how far either party is willing to push the negotiation and potentially lose out on the dough...

[stek]

"We must opt you out of the Conduct of Employment Agencies Regs 2003...

One agency I worked through insisted on me providing a shed load of stuff if I wanted to opt in. Stuff like three years audited accounts and copies of company bank statements as well a list of personal referees - I gave up...

[speling bee]

I agree. She has a lot of interesting input but for some reason seemed to attract abuse from the start. So I'm in the Gentile fan club.

+1. There are a lot of 40 something male virgins on this site who are angry because they lack the courage to talk to the nice lady at Reception. They channel this anger towards Gentile. Weird, but this is the internet.

[Gentile]

They clearly understand the concept of truth or they would not be able to so consistently lie.

However, from memory, didn't someone (Cojak?) post that agencies can decline to contract with your Ltd unless you agree to opt out?

I think Cojak has some experience of reporting the matter to the appropriate regulatory authorities and being stonewalled with the usual, lazy, "we don't want to do the job we get paid for" public sector attitude. But it's not accurate to say that agencies can just decide not to contract with your Ltd unless you agree to opt out, no. The relevant bit of the Regs says:

"32 Application of the Regulations to work-seekers which are incorporated

(1)..(8) Stuff that protects you

(9) Subject to paragraph (12), paragraphs (1)—(8) shall not apply where a work-seeker which is a company, and the person who is or would be supplied by that work-seeker to carry out the work, agree that they should not apply, and give notice of that agreement to an employment business or agency, provided that such notice is given before the introduction or supply of the work-seeker or the person who would be supplied by the work-seeker to do the work, to the hirer.

...

(13) Neither an agency nor an employment business may make the provision of work-finding services to a work-seeker which is a company conditional upon the work-seeker, and the person who is or would be supplied by the work-seeker to carry out the work, entering into and giving notice of an agreement as referred to in paragraph (9), to the agency or employment business."

It's possible that some less-reputable agencies will try to find an alternative reason not to deal with you if you don't opt out. However, that's a dangerous game to play if the contractor knows what they're doing. E.g., I record all my business calls, and I'd have no qualms about sharing my recording of any call in which it had been admitted that the real reason a contract that had been offered was being withdrawn was simply because I was insisting on my statutory rights should a later reason be spuriously suggested as the ostensible grounds for a contract offer being withdrawn*.


(*PS: You can do that as a business, you know: record your calls for valid business reasons, such as recording contractual discussions. By law, you don't even have to tell anyone you're doing it. If they deal fairly with you, they'll never need to know you were fully prepared to take things further if you were forced to.)

[Ignis Fatuus]

+1. There are a lot of 40 something male virgins on this site who are angry because they lack the courage to talk to the nice lady at Reception. They channel this anger towards Gentile. Weird, but this is the internet.

I'm sure that's it. There are a lot of guys on here with serious issues towards women.

[Rabotnik]

I did say that at the beginning then disagreed with myself so I am on your side unless I disagree with myself again at a later date.

Ponyatno?

Russian speaker?

Yep, followed by a vaguely threatening grumble from them about referring this to their legal department. Yeah, whatever. Do the needful.

I routinely get the same bulltulip on payment terms that have to be "referred to the finance director" for approval because absolutely EVERYONE else is happy with monthly invoicing and 6 week payment terms.

Spooky, my agent said the same things to me about this gig . But originally it was only 3 months, so I didn't push it, and now I'm at 7 months and haven't had any issues. Will probably renew in December and then I will tell them I want weekly pay or I'm out, since I'm bored and need a change.

[Mister Clark]

Thought I would share this more for amusement purposes than anything else.

Received it a few months back:

The final draft of the above Regulations, which control how recruitment companies conduct their business, came into force on 6th April 2004. The Regulations affect how we deal with ‘temps’ and also covers our dealings with contractors.

However, after prolonged lobbying from various interest groups, the Government adopted a proposal which enables limited company contractors, such as you, to opt out of the Regulations. If you opt out then the Regulations will not apply to dealings between you and us.

The Regulations affect how we deal with ‘temps’ and also covers our dealings with

The Regulations are located here: The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003. Although it is not possible for us to explain all of the regulations to you, we have set out in brief below some of the pros and cons of opting out:

Pros - Advantages of opting out

1. no increase in administration or forms to complete.

2. avoid potential delays in starting your assignments due to minimal administration

3. less statutory restriction on your ability to substitute or sub-contract

4. avoid any implication that you are under the client’s control at all times (although you may agree to be)

5. may assist in demonstrating that you operate outside IR35

6. easier to show you are in business on your own account

7. increases your marketability to clients & recruiters looking to reduce administration and place candidates quickly

8. only one negotiation of contract terms in each case (rather than at the outset and at point of assignment)

9. less requirements on you to provide information and confirmations

10. more attractive to umbrellas and composite companies as they avoid increased statutory requirements


Cons - Disadvantages of opting out

1. no additional protection regarding potentially onerous contract terms (existing statutory protection remains)

2. no statutory entitlement to information regarding health and safety (although our terms deal with this)

3. no minimal protection when required to work away from home

4. no added protection regarding confidentiality (although Data Protection Act still applies)

Of course, it is very important that you satisfy yourself of the Pros and Cons as they relate to you and we regret that we are unable to offer any further or specific advice to you.

[psychocandy]

I think Cojak has some experience of reporting the matter to the appropriate regulatory authorities and being stonewalled with the usual, lazy, "we don't want to do the job we get paid for" public sector attitude. But it's not accurate to say that agencies can just decide not to contract with your Ltd unless you agree to opt out, no. The relevant bit of the Regs says:

"32 Application of the Regulations to work-seekers which are incorporated

(1)..(8) Stuff that protects you

(9) Subject to paragraph (12), paragraphs (1)—(8) shall not apply where a work-seeker which is a company, and the person who is or would be supplied by that work-seeker to carry out the work, agree that they should not apply, and give notice of that agreement to an employment business or agency, provided that such notice is given before the introduction or supply of the work-seeker or the person who would be supplied by the work-seeker to do the work, to the hirer.

...

(13) Neither an agency nor an employment business may make the provision of work-finding services to a work-seeker which is a company conditional upon the work-seeker, and the person who is or would be supplied by the work-seeker to carry out the work, entering into and giving notice of an agreement as referred to in paragraph (9), to the agency or employment business."

It's possible that some less-reputable agencies will try to find an alternative reason not to deal with you if you don't opt out. However, that's a dangerous game to play if the contractor knows what they're doing. E.g., I record all my business calls, and I'd have no qualms about sharing my recording of any call in which it had been admitted that the real reason a contract that had been offered was being withdrawn was simply because I was insisting on my statutory rights should a later reason be spuriously suggested as the ostensible grounds for a contract offer being withdrawn*.


(*PS: You can do that as a business, you know: record your calls for valid business reasons, such as recording contractual discussions. By law, you don't even have to tell anyone you're doing it. If they deal fairly with you, they'll never need to know you were fully prepared to take things further if you were forced to.)

How do you record them BTW?