Dealing with Day Rate disclosure requests.

[norrahe]

I hope the above gives you a view from the other side of the fence. Whilst I might make the odd sarcastic comment about counting my riches - alot of that is driven by the assumption that everything that ever goes wrong when contractors are looking for jobs, is the agents fault. Unfortunately, the reality is that much of it has to do with the millions of people who have jumped on the contracting bandwagon over the last 15 years, and have diluted the quality of the true interim market place - sadly, many of the culprits, would never identify themselves as such - and so this constant friction between agent and contractor continues. At the end of the day, we all want to make a good living - something overlooked by both parties alot of the time.

Similarly where you have lots of people jumping on the contracting bandwagon, you also have a market that is equally diluted with agencies that are now dealing with contractors.

It used to be a case in certain markets where it was only a handful of agencies and they knew all the key contractors and built up a rapport with them. Also the agencies had agents with good knowledge of their industry and of the contractors they represented.

These days I feel like yet another commodity and agents like policemen are getting younger ( or am I getting older ). I don't know how many times I've checked out an agents profile on LinkedIn to find its yet another fresh out of uni bod.

I've tried to maintain a rapport with agents I've been dealing with since day one, though when breaking into new markets like I am currently it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Contractoid]

4) This I think is your main, legitimate, gripe - The whole recruiter/contractor sector, really relies on quid pro-quo - you do something for me, I'll do something for you type stuff. Unfortunately, there are a few organisations who believe that this is one way traffic, and often that reflects in the type of recruiter they employ. The worst thing is, this is a difficult cycle to break. Ask yourself where you think your last successful agency role came from. I would hazard a guess that it came from someone fishing for roles, getting lucky, and putting your name to it. I can see your frustration at being stripped of your information - but, it does kind of go around and come around.

You make some fair comments here and we are all victims of a game where the rules are unfair and stacked in favour of the more powerful players. That's just life and those of us playing have to learn to live with it!

On your above point actually no in my experience. I would say the bulk of all my landed assignments come from tried and trusted Agencies who know me well, know how to market me, know their stuff etc. They deal with legitimate roles that do actually exist and not just them going out on a punt to get their foot in the door with a target client using me as the bait!

[Contractoid]

Similarly where you have lots of people jumping on the contracting bandwagon, you also have a market that is equally diluted with agencies that are now dealing with contractors.

It used to be a case in certain markets where it was only a handful of agencies and they knew all the key contractors and built up a rapport with them. Also the agencies had agents with good knowledge of their industry and of the contractors they represented.

These days I feel like yet another commodity and agents like policemen are getting younger ( or am I getting older ). I don't know how many times I've checked out an agents profile on LinkedIn to find its yet another fresh out of uni bod.

I've tried to maintain a rapport with agents I've been dealing with since day one, though when breaking into new markets like I am currently it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

OMG tell me about it. I should have added this to my earlier post. Those cringe inducing phone conversations with the Uni grad who clearly hasn't got a clue about the industry reading out a job spec to you verbatim asking you in condescending tones if you can “do” each line item in the role requirements list. Painful!

[nomadd]

Similarly where you have lots of people jumping on the contracting bandwagon, you also have a market that is equally diluted with agencies that are now dealing with contractors.

It used to be a case in certain markets where it was only a handful of agencies and they knew all the key contractors and built up a rapport with them. Also the agencies had agents with good knowledge of their industry and of the contractors they represented.

These days I feel like yet another commodity and agents like policemen are getting younger ( or am I getting older ). I don't know how many times I've checked out an agents profile on LinkedIn to find its yet another fresh out of uni bod.

I've tried to maintain a rapport with agents I've been dealing with since day one, though when breaking into new markets like I am currently it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

+1,000,000

[oscarose]

this constant friction between agent and contractor continues. At the end of the day, we all want to make a good living - something overlooked by both parties alot of the time.

Fair comment.

The majority of my contracts have been via agencies and haven't had any major problems. I have the choice to apply for a contract advertised by an agent or generate my own leads. If I go via an agency, I expect to pay commission to the agent. Because, generally, there is no transparency in terms of the % cut the agents takes (until I see client invoice from agency ) can sow the seed of doubt to the contractor that they are been fleeced probably doesn't help the agent/contractor relationship.

A contractor who constantly moans the agency is lining their pockets at their expense is quite annoying as they have a simple choice, do the sales and marketing yourself and network (and overcome client company HR barriers/red tape).

[The Agents View]

On your above point actually no in my experience. I would say the bulk of all my landed assignments come from tried and trusted Agencies who know me well, know how to market me, know their stuff etc. They deal with legitimate roles that do actually exist and not just them going out on a punt to get their foot in the door with a target client using me as the bait!

But where do you think those legitimate roles come from?

If it's a long term relationship, how do you think the agent knew to speak to that person in the first place - probably what you guys call fishing.

If it's a first time type deal - they probably found out because someone told them.

If it's a role they've just heard of and want someone to get them in, it was probably fishing.

Agents work on the basis of paths of least resistance. I would always rather go into a conversation knowing someone was looking for a resource (because a contractor has told me, most regularly), rather than making a completely cold call.

So whilst the agent will look like they know what they're doing (even I can make it look like I know what I'm doing sometimes!) - alot of the time it's the same thing, dressed up by a slightly more eloquent telephone manner.

[The Agents View]

Similarly where you have lots of people jumping on the contracting bandwagon, you also have a market that is equally diluted with agencies that are now dealing with contractors.

I agree. There are too many agents out there - unfortunately that's never going to change.

It used to be a case in certain markets where it was only a handful of agencies and they knew all the key contractors and built up a rapport with them. Also the agencies had agents with good knowledge of their industry and of the contractors they represented.

My industry is a bit like that - you can't always know everyone, but when I met my business partner, we sat down and realised that there was only about a 20% disparity in the client relationships we had, and maybe a little more in the relationships we have with contractors.

These days I feel like yet another commodity and agents like policemen are getting younger ( or am I getting older ). I don't know how many times I've checked out an agents profile on LinkedIn to find its yet another fresh out of uni bod.

I've tried to maintain a rapport with agents I've been dealing with since day one, though when breaking into new markets like I am currently it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I would argue that you're contributing to the problem here. Don't take this the wrong way, but the point of a contract resource, is that it's been there and done it - probably a number of times. In my opinion, breaking into new markets is for the permanent world - once you have experience of that market, THEN you can cash in on your skills by taking it contracting. To put it another way, you wouldn't hire someone to build you a house, because they'd built 1 million garden walls before......

[The Agents View]

Fair comment.

The majority of my contracts have been via agencies and haven't had any major problems. I have the choice to apply for a contract advertised by an agent or generate my own leads. If I go via an agency, I expect to pay commission to the agent. Because, generally, there is no transparency in terms of the % cut the agents takes (until I see client invoice from agency ) can sow the seed of doubt to the contractor that they are been fleeced probably doesn't help the agent/contractor relationship.

A contractor who constantly moans the agency is lining their pockets at their expense is quite annoying as they have a simple choice, do the sales and marketing yourself and network (and overcome client company HR barriers/red tape).

Perhaps there needs to be a change in thinking here.

So yes - an agent (if selected properly etc) can be a good way to outsource marketing, networking, sales, barrier removal, red tape cutting, etc etc. You pay for quality in every area of life though. I believe in fair days wage for a fair days work.

If you consider that it costs me approximately 5% to factor an invoice, that I need a 5% contribution from each invoice for running costs (staff, office space, technology, job boards, accountants etc) Then I need another 2.5% for paying commissions to the consultants, then at some point, the business has to make some profit - surely 5% is fair? by the time the taxman has taken his share, that's more like 2.5% anyway - that is a total of 17.5% margin before it's anywhere near taking the p!.......

All of the above, doesn't take into account the contractor who walks off site, the bad debtors, the slow payers, the contractor and client who collude to back-door the agent and cost in legal fees, the contractor who takes the other contract at the last second (I'm still bitter about that one this week....seriously, disappearing off to Saudi....grrrr), the failed security check (see other thread for examples of some peoples incompetence/ability to lie) and the million other things that can cost in lost time.

I will sit back and watch this thread and see how many people believe that 17.5% is an agent lining his/her pockets. I would guess, quite a few....sadly, these people have no idea of the costs involved in running an agency. Of course, the flip side is that you can go through a big agency, who achieve economies of scale, and can therefore offer rates at the low end of things......But most people have very poor experiences of organisations like that - as detailed in previous posts.....

[norrahe]

I would argue that you're contributing to the problem here. Don't take this the wrong way, but the point of a contract resource, is that it's been there and done it - probably a number of times. In my opinion, breaking into new markets is for the permanent world - once you have experience of that market, THEN you can cash in on your skills by taking it contracting. To put it another way, you wouldn't hire someone to build you a house, because they'd built 1 million garden walls before......

I should point out it's not a new market or skillset but a new geographic location and network, and whilst some of the agents that I have the rapport with have recommended me to their colleagues in my new country of residence I still have to work out what agencies are reputable and which are not.

So maybe the turn of phrase "market" was perhaps not the right one.

[nomadd]

I will sit back and watch this thread and see how many people believe that 17.5% is an agent lining his/her pockets. I would guess, quite a few....sadly, these people have no idea of the costs involved in running an agency. Of course, the flip side is that you can go through a big agency, who achieve economies of scale, and can therefore offer rates at the low end of things......But most people have very poor experiences of organisations like that - as detailed in previous posts.....

My last 5 roles have been through large agencies who have been sole supplier to the client (all Banks, bar one.) All other agencies have had to go through them. The agency margin has varied between 8 and 12 percent when I've worked for these sole suppliers. All have been terrific to work for and paid on time. Two of them have brought in repeat business.

So, to me, 17.5% or more is you lining your pockets.

NB. I can't help it that you are small fry and/or run you business badly.