Contract renewals with Indian cos

[theroyale]

Got a 3 month contract, to deliver something but in reality he had to train a bunch of Indians on how to do his job for 6 weeks. After 6 weeks they terminated his contract with no notice and that was it. They're out to screw us for our knowledge and possibly to win contracts but then all work will go to Indians. A generalisation of course, but be aware.

The sort of thing that the forum routinely tells its members to accept as a fact of life if its a 'normal' contract, but one that needs special mention because its one of these consultancies. Hmm...

[ChimpMaster]

The sort of thing that the forum routinely tells its members to accept as a fact of life if its a 'normal' contract, but one that needs special mention because its one of these consultancies. Hmm...

No, your sarcasm is misplaced here.

It's because this kind of action is a 'matter of course' for Indian consultancies because they have grown up with a systematic acceptance and encouragement of abuse. This is endemic within India on the whole from an employer/employee point of view, and so these corporations believe they can use the same system internationally.

It's a real shame because there is very little that we can do to discourage this. More and more consultants/contractors are forced to take on work from Indian consultancies because they are the only ones winning work (due to undercutting and visa system abuse). Though, once in, the only work given is to train the offshore (or onshored) staff before being given the boot.

A 'normal' contract, as you put it, would be OK if the consultancy hires a contractor to train their staff for 6 weeks or however long. It is not 'normal' to be hired for 3 months of project work, only to be stuck training their staff for 6 weeks and then terminated.

[theroyale]

No, your sarcasm is misplaced here.

It's because this kind of action is a 'matter of course' for Indian consultancies because they have grown up with a systematic acceptance and encouragement of abuse. This is endemic within India on the whole from an employer/employee point of view, and so these corporations believe they can use the same system internationally.

That's a fairly large-scale generalisation to make.

It's a real shame because there is very little that we can do to discourage this. More and more consultants/contractors are forced to take on work from Indian consultancies because they are the only ones winning work (due to undercutting and visa system abuse). Though, once in, the only work given is to train the offshore (or onshored) staff before being given the boot.

I agree on the visa abuse. The ICT system as it is is a joke. I'd like to see a lot more out in the open.

A 'normal' contract, as you put it, would be OK if the consultancy hires a contractor to train their staff for 6 weeks or however long. It is not 'normal' to be hired for 3 months of project work, only to be stuck training their staff for 6 weeks and then terminated.

Do you mean they're given *no* indication that what's actually coming up is knowledge transfer? I find this hard to believe - I've been in workplaces where work has systematically been moving offshore, and it does become fairly obvious to everyone within the departments involved that this is actually what is happening. If the company/department you work for has quite visibly started offshoring work, getting Indian PMs and developers in, setting up weekly conference calls to India and what not, I'd have to be a bit thick (or in denial) to not realise what exactly is going on.

This is not to say that Indian companies are being sensitive enough about it or have the slightest bit of tact. They're not and they don't. But its ridiculous to single them out for this sort of behaviour - the world over the story of downsizing has been employees (even those who've given 10 or 20 years to a company) coming in one fine day to their desk, only to find they have a meeting with HR and are told to clear their desks by end of day. This isn't any different and if anything I'd be blaming the parent company that initially did the offshoring for not negotiating the terms of the handover better and in more detail.

[Sid]

No, your sarcasm is misplaced here.

It's because this kind of action is a 'matter of course' for Indian consultancies because they have grown up with a systematic acceptance and encouragement of abuse. This is endemic within India on the whole from an employer/employee point of view, and so these corporations believe they can use the same system internationally.

It's a real shame because there is very little that we can do to discourage this. More and more consultants/contractors are forced to take on work from Indian consultancies because they are the only ones winning work (due to undercutting and visa system abuse). Though, once in, the only work given is to train the offshore (or onshored) staff before being given the boot.

A 'normal' contract, as you put it, would be OK if the consultancy hires a contractor to train their staff for 6 weeks or however long. It is not 'normal' to be hired for 3 months of project work, only to be stuck training their staff for 6 weeks and then terminated.

Anybody knows who UK Border Agency outsources its IT work to? Hope not another Indian IT consultancy....!!

[AnthonyQuinn]

Yes there is an Indian mafia as they are low paid, indecisive and keep saying yes sir

I have hired 2 people in India to do some work for me. I agree with all of he shortcomings mentioned. But its also a fact that
1. They are cheaper
2. they get the job done quicker
3. They do what they are told. cant be said about an European with similar skill levels.
4. Will give up part of their personal time to ensure that things are delivered on time.

So, for clearly defined jobs, I would outsource to an Indian company any day.

[Sid]

I have hired 2 people in India to do some work for me. I agree with all of he shortcomings mentioned. But its also a fact that
1. They are cheaper
2. they get the job done quicker
3. They do what they are told. cant be said about an European with similar skill levels.
4. Will give up part of their personal time to ensure that things are delivered on time.

So, for clearly defined jobs, I would outsource to an Indian company any day.

completely agree here....an European would be a master C programmer with 30 yrs experience but would like to retire being just that, whereas an Indian programmer would have worked on half-a-dozen programming languages over 10 yrs. Sometimes showing flexibility at work and being agile and adaptable makes ppl thrive, otherwise we whine in forums about our job being outsourced...

[rambaugh]

I have hired 2 people in India to do some work for me. I agree with all of he shortcomings mentioned. But its also a fact that
1. They are cheaper
2. they get the job done quicker
3. They do what they are told. cant be said about an European with similar skill levels.
4. Will give up part of their personal time to ensure that things are delivered on time.

So, for clearly defined jobs, I would outsource to an Indian company any day.

1. It can take up to 5-6 engineers to produce the same level of output on a like-for-like task when compared to a local engineer. This ratio likely increases the less process oriented a task is (e.g. compare support to design)

2. It's quicker because a lot of corners are cut. Quality is typically absent in any production artefact.

3. Confrontation is not in Indian culture. Any tensions that surface will often get swept under the carpet leaving them unresolved and overlooked often catching you out later.

4. Most contractors I know are committed to delivery for their customers and often pull in the extra hours when needed.

[NotAllThere]

I have deleted a few posts that could have been construed by a sensitive flower as being racist. Robust remarks are fine - general negative comments of an entire ethnic group are not permitted.

The shifted to General.