My life as a contractor- Day 2

[jmo21]

Edited as just seen post above..so every job I get I will have to make sure its 10 miles away from any other job I have had otherwise if not I have to add it onto the time of that other job to make sure I don't go over 24 months of being at the same location?

That's what I am saying, but I'm not sure about the 10 mile figure as I don't have the link to hand. Even then, it wasn't a link to HRMC.

[kempc23]

Im confused.

As mentioned above, I worked in consulting for 6 years. My base office was in the City of London, which I assume is considered a permanent workplace.

Now I have started working for my own limited company, surely this new place of work (west end of london) is a temporary place of work, as it will only be a 6 month contract? it is probably only 20 minutes away from my old place of work though.

[kempc23]

All sorts of different mileages have been mentioned and never agreed on but the term 'geographical location' has been used before but is still grey. I don't think you can put a mileage on it for mathematical reasons. Think about an isoceles triangle. If the base is 10 miles different the actual distance travelled from home to work is the same. I am sure HMRC would argue that in that case there is no significant change in distance travelled. If it is 10 miles further in a straight line then yes is will be different.

Thing is what is significant? I would not call 10 miles significant but I play safe with these types of things.

The way it was explained to me is that it was designed for us but think of it like a permie. The idea of this arrangement is to provide a break for two years for someone that has moved a considerable difference, say Manc to Brum. 2 years seems to be a reasonable time for that person to make a decision to relocate. If he decides not to then no more cash, it is on his head. If he does move then problem solved.
As to whether or not it restarts is whether or not his next role is far enough to consider relocation. If he lived in Brum center and travelled 20 miles south and then got a new job 20 miles north he isn't going to relocate, he is going to just take in his stride. I would say then that because he doesn't think to relocate then HMRC wouldn't see this as significant enough to re-start the clock. Does that make sense.

Generally people are happy to work with in a largish radius of home without quesion. A 20-30 mile commute isn't unreasonable so draw a circle around your house at that radius and anything in that area I would expect HMRC to argue is not worthy or restarting the clock.

This is probably just as grey, offers no answer and in fact err's on the side of HMRC which could be pretty gauling for some people but it seemed to give an understanding of what HMRC are trying to aim at.

That help at all?

Yes that does help a bit thanks.

So my accountant said the journey would need to be different, either in terms of distance apart, OR cost.

So if I wanted to really stretch it, in my last job, I was actually in permanent employment for two weeks, but it was at Canary Wharf so I was able to cycle. So cost of travel was £0. My new cost of travel will be ~£1500 a year.

However I have also seen it stated that the important factor is the difference between the two journeys-

For a workplace to be different then there must be a difference between the journeys to the different workplaces. For instance HMRC would view two workplaces that are near Bank Tube Station in London as the same for the purposes of this legislation as the journey undertaken by the employee would essentially be the same. If a different journey is undertaken it is more likely that each workplace is different. The question of "how different a journey ?" is subjective and if you have any doubts then take advice, but basically if you end up at the same public transport terminal or you use the same roads, then the it is likely you are at the same workplace.

So based on that, in your example of changing from south to north birmingham, they would be different temporary places of work.

[TheFaQQer]

The definition seems to be whether the new location results in a significantly different location than the previous one.

For example - if I live in central London, then I would argue that a journey to docklands and a journey to White City are fundamentally different journeys. Therefore I would claim the expense.

If I live in Glasgow, and change from one contract in docklands to one contract in White City, then I don't think that you can reasonably argue that the journey is significantly different, therefore expenses wouldn't be claimable.

If you sign up to Contractor Alliance, there is some interesting stuff on there by Bob Jones, which is well worth reading.

[TheFaQQer]

Im confused.

As mentioned above, I worked in consulting for 6 years. My base office was in the City of London, which I assume is considered a permanent workplace.

Now I have started working for my own limited company, surely this new place of work (west end of london) is a temporary place of work, as it will only be a 6 month contract? it is probably only 20 minutes away from my old place of work though.

It's nothing to do with who you are working for - it's a personal thing based on where the individual is working.

[robin]

I had this (so I thought) clear in my head now I'm

So if I work on a contract for 18 months in Oxford then over the next 2 years I have various contracts not in Oxford then go back for a different company in Oxford for 8 months, so can I not now claim expenses for that role as I have already been in Oxford for 18 months and with this one it takes me over 24 months?

Also from then on any contract I get in Oxford can I not claim expenses as it will mean even more months over the 24 limit?
Surely there has to be a reset time as like I said if most of your work is always found in a few areas thats it as far as your expenses forever!

[northernladuk]

<Pedant>

So if I wanted to really stretch it, in my last job, I was actually in permanent employment for two weeks, but it was at Canary Wharf so I was able to cycle. So cost of travel was £0. My new cost of travel will be ~£1500 a year.

I don't think I have heard of method of transport change being a factor as that is your choice. This rule has to cover everyone so very individual circumstances like that I don't think would count without a fight.

The definition seems to be whether the new location results in a significantly different location than the previous one.

For example - if I live in central London, then I would argue that a journey to docklands and a journey to White City are fundamentally different journeys. Therefore I would claim the expense.

I don't know London but in one sentence you meantion significant, in the next you mention fundamental. Just because one is fundamentally different I wouldn't say it was a given it was significantly different. Am I focussing too much on an individual word?

</Pedant>

[kempc23]

The definition seems to be whether the new location results in a significantly different location than the previous one.

For example - if I live in central London, then I would argue that a journey to docklands and a journey to White City are fundamentally different journeys. Therefore I would claim the expense.

If I live in Glasgow, and change from one contract in docklands to one contract in White City, then I don't think that you can reasonably argue that the journey is significantly different, therefore expenses wouldn't be claimable.

If you sign up to Contractor Alliance, there is some interesting stuff on there by Bob Jones, which is well worth reading.

See this is how I understood it at first. So in my example- in my last place of work, I cycled to work in canary wharf. Now I will be getting the tube into the west end, so a completely different journey. Feels like a temporary place of work to me.

[northernladuk]

See this is how I understood it at first. So in my example- in my last place of work, I cycled to work in canary wharf. Now I will be getting the tube into the west end, so a completely different journey. Feels like a temporary place of work to me.

It isn't a different journey, you still travel from A to B, it is a different method of journey. It is about your place of work, not the actual journey IMO. How can a place feel different just because you got there a slightly different way. I have been to Birmingham in the car and then on the train and it was still the same tulip place and didn't feel any different If this was the case we would be swapping from a bike to a car every 2 years to restart the clock. Remember most if not all of the policies are generic and do not factor in highly personal circumstances unfortuantely.

[northernladuk]

Just to answer most of the basic questions I did a sticky of as many 24 month rule questions I could find that have been asked on here, some in great detail. Worth a look rather than resurrect individual questions.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...questions.html