From hour rates to day rates

**thunderlizard** · 3 July 2008, 21:56

(a) You ultimately do need to decide what the quotient is. But don't subtract the amount you're not billing: days not billing on an hourly rate would also be days not billing on a daily rate. You've clearly been on site for a while, so you should have a good idea how many hours are in an average working day.
(b) Make sure it's clear in the contract, and then stick to it.
(c) no,£750 would be right given those figures.
(d) Of course there isn't. You have to feel it in your soul. Go home at the point at which you feel you've provided a day's worth of professionalism - which might be 5.5 hours, it might be 12. Or you could create a legal definition for it by writing it into your contract.

**slackbloke** · 3 July 2008, 22:00

Originally posted by Numpty View Post

A slight variation on the other similar thread.

ClientCo has just told us we're all being moved from hourly rates to daily rates come extension time (1st August for a bunch of us).

My agency says "Just take your average hours per week since you started, divide by 5 and that's your daily rate".

a) Is it that simple?

(With sick & leave & bank holidays that comes out at 32.7 hours per week for me, = 6½ hours per day)

b) I have been screwed in the past on a day rate where PreviousClientCo said "You must work 4 hours for ½ day, 8 hours for a day. No overtime, no carry-overs." We mostly did about 45-60 hours a week for 40 hours (or 36 hours if we got after 9 a.m. one day) money there.

How do I stop that happening again?

c) If I'm on £100 per hour (I'm not), what is the equivalent day rate for a 37.5 hour per week gig, in reality?

(I suspect 100 x 37.5 / 5 = 750 is too simple.)

d) Is there a formal legal definition for "A Professional Working Day"?

No idea what your agent is going on about. I have been in exactly the same position. Simply multiple your hourly rate by the contracted hours for a standard week and divide by 5 e.g. (£100 * 40)/5 = £800
Make sure the number of weekly hours remains in the contract

**Numpty** · 3 July 2008, 22:02

Thank you.

Originally posted by thunderlizard View Post

(b) Make sure it's clear in the contract, and then stick to it.
(d) Of course there isn't.

(b) and (d) clash.

PreviousClientCo defined it as "Do more than 8 hours every day or we dock your money". The agency backed them up (of course).

If the contract is going to be changed, I want it to say EXACTLY what is expected and then I can work out a suitable rate. But to do that, I reckon I'll end up having to come up with the definition of "a professional day".

**Numpty** · 3 July 2008, 22:05

Originally posted by slackbloke View Post

Make sure the number of weekly hours remains in the contract

But isn't that a "professional week", not "a professional day"?

If you're going to be invoicing for one fifth of the weekly hours per day, do you do your invoice for:

hours per week / 10 x ½ day rate ?

That suggests you can carry hours over. PreviousClientCo + PreviousAgent were insistent you couldn't do that ("there's no flexitime for a professional day").

**slackbloke** · 3 July 2008, 22:16

Originally posted by Numpty View Post

Thank you.

(b) and (d) clash.

PreviousClientCo defined it as "Do more than 8 hours every day or we dock your money". The agency backed them up (of course).

If the contract is going to be changed, I want it to say EXACTLY what is expected and then I can work out a suitable rate. But to do that, I reckon I'll end up having to come up with the definition of "a professional day".

"PreviousClientCo defined it as "Do more than 8 hours every day or we dock your money". " ??????! Your contract is with the agency, ClientCo cannot override what your contract says.

**Gonzo** · 3 July 2008, 22:20

Originally posted by Numpty View Post

d) Is there a formal legal definition for "A Professional Working Day"?

Current contract is on a day rate. The contract explicitly states that I will decide my own start and finish times, and how many hours I need to provide.

Then again, it also states that I will do as much time as the contract deliverable requires.

I see it as my own responsibility to determine what is required. Typically I will put in a 40 hour week, but on a day to day basis I will be as flexible as I want. Luckily the work I do gives me a lot of autonomy.

Presenteeism is for permies. You are not going to get more than six hours a day useful work out of anyone. Only towards project go live is it sometimes necessary to do a load more.

**slackbloke** · 3 July 2008, 22:22

Originally posted by Numpty View Post

But isn't that a "professional week", not "a professional day"?

If you're going to be invoicing for one fifth of the weekly hours per day, do you do your invoice for:

hours per week / 10 x ½ day rate ?

That suggests you can carry hours over. PreviousClientCo + PreviousAgent were insistent you couldn't do that ("there's no flexitime for a professional day").

No, it is exactly what is says, contracted to work 40 hours a week. I have a contract that says that but also says I get paid daily. You don't invoice for one fifth of the weekly hours per day (that is just how you derive the daily rate at the start of the contract), I still invoice 5 daily rates per week and work 40 hours a week. You don't need to carry hours over, just do 8 hours a day and nothing else.

**Numpty** · 3 July 2008, 22:31

Originally posted by slackbloke View Post

No, it is exactly what is says, contracted to work 40 hours a week. I have a contract that says that but also says I get paid daily. You don't invoice for one fifth of the weekly hours per day (that is just how you derive the daily rate at the start of the contract), I still invoice 5 daily rates per week and work 40 hours a week. You don't need to carry hours over, just do 8 hours a day and nothing else.

That's how I got screwed in the past.

We had to do 8 hours a day. 7 hours 55 minutes was a half day.

Yet, because it was project work (as it is in this contract) sometimes you did 12 hours a day. That was still one day.

Nett result: unpaid overtime.

Since I'm currently paid hourly, I don't fancy changing the rules giving them free hours in overtime yet being docked money for getting in late the next morning like PreviousClientCo did. Not unless the rate goes up.

**Numpty** · 3 July 2008, 22:32

Originally posted by slackbloke View Post

"PreviousClientCo defined it as "Do more than 8 hours every day or we dock your money". " ??????! Your contract is with the agency, ClientCo cannot override what your contract says.

The contract said "a professional day". No extra detail.

ClientCo said "that means at least 8 hours per day".

Agency said "it means whatever the client says it means".

From hour rates to day rates