Spain digital nomad visa

[PCTNN]

The problem is with the 'why' is everyone's situation is going to be different.

There is a man, he works in central london, he has a missus and two kids well under 4
He pays 53% tax inside IR35
His mortgage is 3,000pm+bills for a 3 bed terrace
Hello 350pm Gas/Leccy Bill !
His childcare bill is 1450pm x 2 = 2900pm
It's not worth using the National Health or, the train service or, anything else for that matter.

Not much change even out of 250k per year joint income.

In Spain.

You can buy a 5 bedroom villa with a swimming pool for 250k
If you move to the right place you won't need to heat your home
Your childcare bill is capped at 350 euros per child
Your tax bill is 24% flat rate
If the kids moan, buy them a horse....each, if the missus moans, get a third child on the go, a dior bag and a city bolt hole for long weekends with her mother
Get depressed? Buy a 458 Spyder and drive it with the roof down, every day, until it breaks
After 5 years, get an EU passport and sod off somewhere else, stay or, move to the Algarve and pay 20% tax.

In this scenario I normally would expect from you to know how things work in the UK and only write bulltulip about how things work in Spain. BUT in this case you don't even seem to have a clue about how things work here in the UK. Every single thing you wrote is wrong.

[oliverson]

The problem is with the 'why' is everyone's situation is going to be different.

There is a man, he works in central london, he has a missus and two kids well under 4
He pays 53% tax inside IR35
His mortgage is 3,000pm+bills for a 3 bed terrace
Hello 350pm Gas/Leccy Bill !
His childcare bill is 1450pm x 2 = 2900pm
It's not worth using the National Health or, the train service or, anything else for that matter.

Not much change even out of 250k per year joint income.

In Spain.

You can buy a 5 bedroom villa with a swimming pool for 250k
If you move to the right place you won't need to heat your home
Your childcare bill is capped at 350 euros per child
Your tax bill is 24% flat rate
If the kids moan, buy them a horse....each, if the missus moans, get a third child on the go, a dior bag and a city bolt hole for long weekends with her mother
Get depressed? Buy a 458 Spyder and drive it with the roof down, every day, until it breaks
After 5 years, get an EU passport and sod off somewhere else, stay or, move to the Algarve and pay 20% tax.

I've had my place in Spain - Malaga, for over 17 years and let me assure you that you most certainly DO need to heat your home in the winter. Buildings out there are designed to keep cool, our has marble flooring throughout, marble on the bathroom / en-suite walls. Zero insulation. It may not be as cold here in the winter but you need the heating on. Similar story in the summer. On with the air-conditioning and that's not cheap either.

You can buy a 5 bedroom detached house in the North of England for £ 250k still.

I struggle with this notion of having a couple of children, only to stick them in day care all day and at that kind of cost. No wonder kids grow up these days screwed up.

[WTFH]

The problem is with the 'why' is everyone's situation is going to be different.

There is a man, he works in central london, he has a missus and two kids well under 4
He pays 53% tax inside IR35
His mortgage is 3,000pm+bills for a 3 bed terrace
Hello 350pm Gas/Leccy Bill !
His childcare bill is 1450pm x 2 = 2900pm
It's not worth using the National Health or, the train service or, anything else for that matter.

Not much change even out of 250k per year joint income.

In Spain.

You can buy a 5 bedroom villa with a swimming pool for 250k
If you move to the right place you won't need to heat your home
Your childcare bill is capped at 350 euros per child
Your tax bill is 24% flat rate
If the kids moan, buy them a horse....each, if the missus moans, get a third child on the go, a dior bag and a city bolt hole for long weekends with her mother
Get depressed? Buy a 458 Spyder and drive it with the roof down, every day, until it breaks
After 5 years, get an EU passport and sod off somewhere else, stay or, move to the Algarve and pay 20% tax.

If he has a wife and kids but cares more about money than them (and mismanages his finances as badly as you described), is it not worth costing up a divorce instead of horses, Dior, other houses, etc, etc.

[Bluenose]

The problem is with the 'why' is everyone's situation is going to be different.

There is a man, he works in central london, he has a missus and two kids well under 4
He pays 53% tax inside IR35
His mortgage is 3,000pm+bills for a 3 bed terrace
Hello 350pm Gas/Leccy Bill !
His childcare bill is 1450pm x 2 = 2900pm
It's not worth using the National Health or, the train service or, anything else for that matter.

Not much change even out of 250k per year joint income.

In Spain.

You can buy a 5 bedroom villa with a swimming pool for 250k
If you move to the right place you won't need to heat your home
Your childcare bill is capped at 350 euros per child
Your tax bill is 24% flat rate
If the kids moan, buy them a horse....each, if the missus moans, get a third child on the go, a dior bag and a city bolt hole for long weekends with her mother
Get depressed? Buy a 458 Spyder and drive it with the roof down, every day, until it breaks
After 5 years, get an EU passport and sod off somewhere else, stay or, move to the Algarve and pay 20% tax.

[oliverson]

Broadly agree, although I think your family could be perfectly aligned and want to move overseas - there's no reason it cannot be an opportunity for them too - and you can hardly organise your life around your friends as they will make their own choices. But I agree that it involves massive upheaval for all concerned, so tax is far down the list of sensible motivations (yet strangely high on the list for a lot of folks here, perhaps because they haven't thought it through).

I started this thread but I've completely written the idea off now some of the details have emerged, such as needing to be working for a startup of < 5 years, even then the tax rate isn't 15% for you personally, more like 24%, so despite it being quite easy for me, having a 100% remote role, property already in Spain, a bank account and an NIE number, I just don't see any meaningful tax savings. I also know how conniving the Spanish authorities can be and don't trust them one bit. And maybe I'm being optimistic but I feel the tax situation may improve in the UK as the GE approaches and there' s not a chance in hell the Tories will remain in power the way things are. Not that they're a 'Tory' party in the truest sense of the word. ANY sense of the word actually.

[jamesbrown]

And more often than not it's not even just your life, but your kids' and wife's too. How would they feel losing all their friends and social circles so you can save a few bucks on tax?

These nomad visas are an appealing option only when ALL the below apply:
- you earn enough to justify the tax saving side of things
- you don't have any family
- you don't have any social ties/your social ties here are not worth saving

So, not very appealing to the average uk contractor

Broadly agree, although I think your family could be perfectly aligned and want to move overseas - there's no reason it cannot be an opportunity for them too - and you can hardly organise your life around your friends as they will make their own choices. But I agree that it involves massive upheaval for all concerned, so tax is far down the list of sensible motivations (yet strangely high on the list for a lot of folks here, perhaps because they haven't thought it through).

[PCTNN]

unless you want to move your life completely

And more often than not it's not even just your life, but your kids' and wife's too. How would they feel losing all their friends and social circles so you can save a few bucks on tax?

These nomad visas are an appealing option only when ALL the below apply:
- you earn enough to justify the tax saving side of things
- you don't have any family
- you don't have any social ties/your social ties here are not worth saving

So, not very appealing to the average uk contractor

[Bluenose]

You might want to start a new thread for people who want to move to Spain permanently, rather than be a nomad.

I want to be clear about what the Spanish startup law has implemented in December, this is the Spanish Nomad Visa thread about the new law is it not?

Under the new Spanish law, you have the option (you don't need to take it), to take the Spanish Nomad Visa and stay on that Visa for 5 years, paying 15-25% tax. You don't need to leave the country for 5 years.

The Visa is the same Visa but it will just be extended as it elapses, through the 5 year period.

After the 5 years have elapsed, you and your family all can apply to get a shiny new Spanish passport, if you want one. As the law covers not only partners, children but also, dependents, like Grandparents.

Therefore, this is very appealing way of not only saving 25% on your tax levels but also getting your children (and grandparents) EU passports.

EY have done a write-up here, you will need to download the PDF and then use a translator.

https://go.ey.com/3Bc0xat

[jamesbrown]

As I said to someone earlier today - currently an inside IR35 contract paying more than the outside IR35 market rate isn't a bad position to be in.

Indeed, and in a couple of years time once dividend tax and CGT is fully aligned with income tax, then you will be taxed about the same or worse than full PAYE, but I expect the inside IR35 rates will come down then too. I get why it's tempting to think about these nomad visas etc. in that light, but unless you want to move your life completely, it doesn't stack up - it rarely does when considering tax alone as there are plenty of places where you can pay almost no tax and there always have been.

[jamesbrown]

At the risk of going off-topic again and sending Bluenose into a head-explosion, this also applies across all companies you own, so if you have a BTL in a Ltd, don't expect to pay 19% on the first £50k for that company!