Perm employee looking to transition into the contracting world

[northernladuk]

I don't understand why you find it so hard to believe that some contracts are paying more than 1k. There is plenty of people on waaaaay more than that. They just don't sit around this forum

And I'm sure that's absolutely true but as the OP is also here asking then they are not for him either

[cannon999]

I don't understand why you find it so hard to believe that some contracts are paying more than 1k. There is plenty of people on waaaaay more than that. They just don't sit around this forum

[northernladuk]

There’s a massive difference between advertising a role at £800-1,200 per day and anyone being offered anywhere near the top end of that.
as for what level you are at, start applying for roles and see what ones you get interviews for. Then see what you get offers for. Once you get offers, you’ll get an idea of what you’re worth to clients.

Indeed and to re-iterate, the guide is on roles you secure, not the number of agents that speak to you.,,,but he has to be wary that it is easy doing this while in a job. Might only take him 10 applications and 3 months but that's not good if he's out of work inbetween his first and second gig. Second one is always the hardest one to get. First one while in perm is as cushy as they come.

As security is a bit hot at the moment the rule of thumb might be slightly different but still generally apply.

I was looking on JobServe and they seem to have been posted by reputable recruitment firms.

Even reputable firms go on fishing trips for CV's sadly. Very common practice. It's in the same standard practice boat of asking for two references that really is just for them to go tap up your contacts for new work. Agents are just commission sales people so every trick in the book is open season for them.
https://forums.contractoruk.com/busi...eferences.html

[WTFH]

There’s a massive difference between advertising a role at £800-1,200 per day and anyone being offered anywhere near the top end of that.
as for what level you are at, start applying for roles and see what ones you get interviews for. Then see what you get offers for. Once you get offers, you’ll get an idea of what you’re worth to clients.

[JackD]

No way are you seeing roles over 1200 a day for a bum on seat contractor. If you are seeing much of 600 and even around that figure then they are fishing and there will either be no role or it will suddenly drop to around market price once you start the process.

There is no stepping up or down. You are either fit for the role or you are not. The rate depends on what the client is paying. It could be 350 inside for PS for the same role as 500 outside. Contracting doesn't do junior or less experienced roles. The only step down is you taking the bottom feeder roles that no one else wants.

The majority of roles I’m seeing are over 600- if I’m honest I wouldn’t make the move from perm for much less and obviously ideally more. I’m getting roughy £80k as perm at the moment with a lot of added perks.

I have noticed the job ads are a lot more vague than perm job descriptions I’ve seen, so maybe you’re right.. I was looking on JobServe and they seem to have been posted by reputable recruitment firms.

The salaries in cyber have been inflated for a while though so I wouldn’t be surprised if contracting rates were higher than other tech rates

[JackD]

Jack, if you're seeing roles at £400-£1200 per day for the same type of role then you're not understanding what you're looking at.
The rate you get offered is dependent on your experience and your ability.
If a role was offered at £500 per day, I would expect similar roles would be £450-550 per day for the same experience, and less for someone fresh into contracting.
For £1200 a day as an independent contractor, I'd expect 20+ years experience at the top of their game with multiple clients who are in the Fortune 100.
£1200 a day through a consultancy is a different matter. Client pays EY etc that money, they pay their employee a quarter or it.

They’re definitely not all for the same experience level, I’m seeing analyst at 4-600, specialist at 5-800 and lead roles at 650-1200 (1200 was the highest, being this role: https://www.jobserve.com/gb/en/mob/j...073E127&page=1)

I’m currently in a lead position, but happy to start my first contract at the specialist level.

[northernladuk]

Thanks - I appreciate you sharing the link, I'm going to readup on the first timers articles this evening.

Is it common to take a step down in terms of roles for your first contracting role? There's massive discrepancies in the daily rates I'm seeing - they seem to be £400-1200/day for roles requiring similar experience/skillset to mine

No way are you seeing roles over 1200 a day for a bum on seat contractor. If you are seeing much of 600 and even around that figure then they are fishing and there will either be no role or it will suddenly drop to around market price once you start the process.

There is no stepping up or down. You are either fit for the role or you are not. The rate depends on what the client is paying. It could be 350 inside for PS for the same role as 500 outside. Contracting doesn't do junior or less experienced roles. The only step down is you taking the bottom feeder roles that no one else wants.

[WTFH]

Is it common to take a step down in terms of roles for your first contracting role? There's massive discrepancies in the daily rates I'm seeing - they seem to be £400-1200/day for roles requiring similar experience/skillset to mine

Jack, if you're seeing roles at £400-£1200 per day for the same type of role then you're not understanding what you're looking at.
The rate you get offered is dependent on your experience and your ability.
If a role was offered at £500 per day, I would expect similar roles would be £450-550 per day for the same experience, and less for someone fresh into contracting.
For £1200 a day as an independent contractor, I'd expect 20+ years experience at the top of their game with multiple clients who are in the Fortune 100.
£1200 a day through a consultancy is a different matter. Client pays EY etc that money, they pay their employee a quarter or it.

[eek]

I'll be sure to know the pros and cons of both a Ltd and Umbrella before making the leap - although I'm sure I'll also learn alot along the way.

If I'm honest, I don't see the appeal with an umbrella company - is that not against the appeal of going contracting? Ideally outside IR35, but if the role is inside, is this not then dealt with by the hiring company?

Hiring companies and agencies don't want the hassle - plus agencies derive benefits from a contract being outside Agency regulations which is 1 of the things that an agency can benefit from when they force you to use an umbrella (another 1 is kickbacks / PSL fees from the umbrella)

[JackD]

"A little bit" is utterly useless. If you want to be a contractor, the first thing to realise is that being a contractor is your job, not being a security analyst. Learn to do it properly.

You really have to understand the difference between Ltd and Umbrella, they are not directly comparable. At it simplest, an umbrella will take the payment from the client, via the agency usually, sort out your personal taxes and pay you net, personally (other bits come off along the way as well). As far as tax is concerned you are an employee, with a few (a very few) employment rights. A Ltd Co is just that, a separate trading vehicle subject to a host of legal constraints that you have to operate as a director, from which can take share dividends and a salary (plus other variations we won't go into now).

With an umbrella you are an employee, with a Ltd your are emphatically not.

But if you don't properly understand IR35 and the impact that Section 10 will have on your income, stay with the umbrella option until you do. Apart from anything else a Ltd Co is worse than a chocolate teapot if you are inside IR35. And stop worrying about tax levels until you understand the whole landscape.

Guides are easily accessed from the main Forum website, the mobile version tends to lose bits.

I'll be sure to know the pros and cons of both a Ltd and Umbrella before making the leap - although I'm sure I'll also learn alot along the way.

If I'm honest, I don't see the appeal with an umbrella company - is that not against the appeal of going contracting? Ideally outside IR35, but if the role is inside, is this not then dealt with by the hiring company?