Day 1 Rights - IR35

[Roll Out The Farrell]

Have you been given a signed SDS stating your IR35 status?

Surely that is self evident if your client is a company with > 100 (?) employees and you're billing through your ltd company?

I thought the onus was on the end client.

I'm operating outside of IR35 and I haven't seen any SDS - though my contract does explicitly state that I'm outside IR35 which is good enough I guess.

I suppose there can be ambiguous situations where you think that your end client is the company you're ostensibly working for when, in fact, technically the agency is acting as a consultancy and is effectively your end client. If that outfit has less than whatever number of employees serves as the medium size company threshold from HMRC's perspective, then the ball is back in the contractor's court as far as determining IR35 status.

[eek]

Surely that is self evident if your client is a company with > 100 (?) employees and you're billing through your ltd company?

I thought the onus was on the end client.

I'm operating outside of IR35 and I haven't seen any SDS - though my contract does explicitly state that I'm outside IR35 which is good enough I guess.

I suppose there can be ambiguous situations where you think that your end client is the company you're ostensibly working for when, in fact, technically the agency is acting as a consultancy and is effectively your end client. If that outfit has less than whatever number of employees serves as the medium size company threshold from HMRC's perspective, then the ball is back in the contractor's court as far as determining IR35 status.

You really are clueless.

A common trick is to not issue a SDS, claim the job is outside and then reveal the truth a couple of weeks later when the SDS determination arrives as inside and the agency starts doing deemed payments or asks which umbrella would you like to be paid through.

[Lance]

Surely that is self evident if your client is a company with > 100 (?) employees and you're billing through your ltd company?

Not really.

I thought the onus was on the end client.

the responsibility is on the end client. They should provide an SDS but if they haven't it might become your problem really fast when they issue an inside SDS later.

I'm operating outside of IR35 and I haven't seen any SDS

so why is the 1st point self-evident. You haven't got one so why would the OP?

- though my contract does explicitly state that I'm outside IR35 which is good enough I guess.

Yeah. OK. How long have you been there?

[Roll Out The Farrell]

You really are clueless.

A common trick is to not issue a SDS, claim the job is outside and then reveal the truth a couple of weeks later when the SDS determination arrives as inside and the agency starts doing deemed payments or asks which umbrella would you like to be paid through.

Why would they do that as I assume most contractors would walk away in that scenario? I certainly would.

[Roll Out The Farrell]

Yeah. OK. How long have you been there?

3 months.

I guess I've dodged a bullet and will be making sure to ask to see the signed SDS before accepting my next outside IR35 role

[Lance]

3 months.

I guess I've dodged a bullet and will be making sure to ask to see the signed SDS before accepting my next outside IR35 role

You 'guess' you've dodged a bullet. You don't 'know' you've dodged a bullet.
If the client are on 90+ day payment terms they may still have not yet issued the SDS. (HINT: client payment terms are not necessarily linked to agency payment terms).

You're 'probably' OK. But 'probably' doesn't pay the bills.

[northernladuk]

I'm operating outside of IR35 and I haven't seen any SDS - though my contract does explicitly state that I'm outside IR35 which is good enough I guess.

Well you guess completely wrong. You really need to get a better grasp of what you do.

I suppose there can be ambiguous situations where you think that your end client is the company you're ostensibly working for when, in fact, technically the agency is acting as a consultancy and is effectively your end client. If that outfit has less than whatever number of employees serves as the medium size company threshold from HMRC's perspective, then the ball is back in the contractor's court as far as determining IR35 status.

No there isn't. It should be cleared up and proper SDS/agreements put in place before the contract starts. The onus is on the feepayer so they are shouldering the risk so if they aren't doing that they are either extremely stupid or there is something more devious going on.

Wait till they change your determination to inside and there is squat you can do about it. Then you'll be wailing. It's happened to at least three people on this forum and that's just what we know about.

And you'll find that gigs in company that meet the small business criteria are really in the minority so I'd stop banging on about that one if I were you.

[northernladuk]

3 months.

I guess I've dodged a bullet and will be making sure to ask to see the signed SDS before accepting my next outside IR35 role

If you've no SDS then the bullet is still on it's way. Ignorance is not a defence. Get an SDS or walk.

This is your livelihood and direct affects your pocket. Do better.

[Lance]

If you've no SDS then the bullet is still on it's way. Ignorance is not a defence. Get an SDS or walk.

This is your livelihood and direct affects your pocket. Do better.

they don't come here for good news do they ???

[eek]

If you've no SDS then the bullet is still on it's way. Ignorance is not a defence. Get an SDS or walk.

This is your livelihood and direct affects your pocket. Do better.

I wonder what terms the end client has with the agency. On 90 days terms the end client has 4 months from the day the contractor arrives before the SDS is actually required (it must be presented before the end client pays the first bill).

Jan 1 - contractor arrives
Feb 2st invoice sent
March 30th project finishes last time sheet submitted
May 1st send SDS determination of inside
May 2nd invoice paid

That isn't fair but it's perfectly legal - HMRC's suggest solution is to ask the contract to repay the money owed - going to court if necessary.