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Ad-hoc consultancy work

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  • SteelyDan
    replied
    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
    Sounds like the worst of all worlds for you really, when it should be the opposite - for ad-hoc work you would expect a high rate and possibly a retainer. It's something of the dream for many!

    You seem to basically have a zero-hours contract offered... you can't take on other work in case they tell you they need you, and you don't get paid when they don't want you. That they also tell you it's inside IR35 is ridiculous, frankly.

    Doesn't sound like there's too much to like about it to me?
    Yes, I know what you mean re: ZHC, but they have said if I'm not available owing to other work, they'd accept that.
    Re; the rate, yes it is 'inside' but I'll be ending up with £9k+/month being paid to me after all necessary stoppages, so I would class that as a reasonably high rate, & equivalent to c.£450/day & no ltd co. accountancy fuss. Initially work is 60 days (3 months), as mentioned so that gives me a reasonable income over a relatively short period of time. It'll be start/stop/start/stop but I'm kinda ok with that tbh.

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  • d000hg
    replied
    Sounds like the worst of all worlds for you really, when it should be the opposite - for ad-hoc work you would expect a high rate and possibly a retainer. It's something of the dream for many!

    You seem to basically have a zero-hours contract offered... you can't take on other work in case they tell you they need you, and you don't get paid when they don't want you. That they also tell you it's inside IR35 is ridiculous, frankly.

    Doesn't sound like there's too much to like about it to me?

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  • SteelyDan
    replied
    Originally posted by ladymuck View Post

    I've seen some suggest nearer 35% but I think at the end of the day, it's up to you and what you think is fare remuneration for the work. Not a helpful answer but only you know what an acceptable fee is.
    Managed to get just short of the 35% uplift (33.333%), so reasonably happy with that.
    Last edited by SteelyDan; 25 November 2021, 16:03.

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  • SteelyDan
    replied
    Originally posted by eek View Post
    If you are doing other work - your best plan for an inside contract is to put everything beyond the minimum wage (that needs to be paid) goes into your pension fund - and for that you need an umbrella.

    I really don't get how people don't grasp this very simple fact.

    The last thing I would be doing in your case is agency / end client payroll.
    Thanks for the input, appreciated, but no, I'm not doing any other work currently. And, I do 'get' the tax efficient dumping into a pension btw, & if this was going to be a longer term work period, then I may have considered this (& discussed it with the consultancy)...but it isn't, it's initially 60 days. There is no agency involved anywhere in this, & the end client is a gov dept. The payroll arrangements are being provided by the consultancy, who approached me directly. I don't see an issue really, apart from the large amount of tax, but there's no escaping that one, unfortunately.

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  • eek
    replied
    If you are doing other work - your best plan for an inside contract is to put everything beyond the minimum wage (that needs to be paid) goes into your pension fund - and for that you need an umbrella.

    I really don't get how people don't grasp this very simple fact.

    The last thing I would be doing in your case is agency / end client payroll.

    Leave a comment:


  • ladymuck
    replied
    Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post

    OK had a chat last week, they want me initially for c.60 days on a T&M basis. They're happy for me to operate 100% remotely, which is great, and also, if they require me further down the line but I'm engaged elsewhere, they're accepting of that possibility. Gives me scope to explore other stuff elsewhere without feeling obligated or tied to these people. They're also doing this through their own payroll system (they have other contractors operating like this, for this particular client of theirs, & inside IR35) so there's no requirement for umbrella org involvement. Just need to agree finances & I think we're sorted. Also need to find a decent calculator to convert outside to inside to gauge the required uplift. Would this need to be c.20%?
    I've seen some suggest nearer 35% but I think at the end of the day, it's up to you and what you think is fare remuneration for the work. Not a helpful answer but only you know what an acceptable fee is.

    Leave a comment:


  • SteelyDan
    replied
    Originally posted by Paralytic View Post

    This should be a Master Services Contract and individual SoWs (for each project) - as said above, this should be a B2B engagement, and trying to shoe-horn it into an IR35 gig is causing issues.

    If it can't be made B2B, i'd just be asking them to come back to you for each project and seeing if you're available - that lets you get on with other clients, and if you're not available, then tough on them.

    If they want you on available at a shorter notice, come up with a structure where you're on a annually renewing contract where, eg, half, your normal day rate is paid whether you complete timesheets or not (ie. a retainer), and you bill the rest of the day rate (or more) for the periods of time when you are doing productive work for them.

    That gives you the time when you're not working for this client to work on other gigs - though that will be difficult to manage if these other clients also just see you as a disguised employee (as this one has accepted is the case).
    OK had a chat last week, they want me initially for c.60 days on a T&M basis. They're happy for me to operate 100% remotely, which is great, and also, if they require me further down the line but I'm engaged elsewhere, they're accepting of that possibility. Gives me scope to explore other stuff elsewhere without feeling obligated or tied to these people. They're also doing this through their own payroll system (they have other contractors operating like this, for this particular client of theirs, & inside IR35) so there's no requirement for umbrella org involvement. Just need to agree finances & I think we're sorted. Also need to find a decent calculator to convert outside to inside to gauge the required uplift. Would this need to be c.20%?

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  • NotAllThere
    replied
    Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
    ...which seems to be the gist of what you had there?
    Yes. One contract.

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  • Paralytic
    replied
    Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post
    Re; "ad-hoc", it definitely won't be a day here, a day there, that would not be possible with the work I do (I'm not a tech, I'm more on the business improvement side).

    Having worked for them before, I feel sure it'll be more structured than that (with a contract containing deliverables), all above board, & I suspect (as mentioned) it will be more like a few months on, couple off, followed by a few on, provided the end client continues to support & finance the project.
    This should be a Master Services Contract and individual SoWs (for each project) - as said above, this should be a B2B engagement, and trying to shoe-horn it into an IR35 gig is causing issues.

    If it can't be made B2B, i'd just be asking them to come back to you for each project and seeing if you're available - that lets you get on with other clients, and if you're not available, then tough on them.

    If they want you on available at a shorter notice, come up with a structure where you're on a annually renewing contract where, eg, half, your normal day rate is paid whether you complete timesheets or not (ie. a retainer), and you bill the rest of the day rate (or more) for the periods of time when you are doing productive work for them.

    That gives you the time when you're not working for this client to work on other gigs - though that will be difficult to manage if these other clients also just see you as a disguised employee (as this one has accepted is the case).
    Last edited by Paralytic; 2 November 2021, 16:31.

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  • SteelyDan
    replied
    Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
    I did this once, but it was adhoc half days, rather than months. We agreed 6 days billing a month regardless, but for the duration of the contract (1 year), no more than 72 days. And with the exception of an international workshop (flights paid by them) for a week, it was all remote.
    Interesting, thanks NAT. I was thinking along similar lines earlier as to how any offering might develop, & thought that it might well be (for want of a better phrase) a sort of open-term contract, which would still allow for the ad-hoc nature of the work, but avoid the 'nause' of creating several short term contracts and all the associated palaver...which seems to be the gist of what you had there?

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