You thought IR35 was bad.

[Lance]

Good. I don't understand why umbrella companies even need to exist (although no doubt some smartarse will be happy to explain to me how stupid I am).

careful what you wish for

If a client wants my services but doesn't want to engage me via my limited company, and they don't want to actually, you know, employ me (God forbid), why can't the recruitment agency do all the payroll stuff? I don't need yet another middle-man taking a cut.

There are plenty that do. Hays, RSG, Capita, Morsons, as examples of the top of my head. They are large enough to run a HR/payroll department. Small agencies want to focus on being oily salesmen.

My current client (a consultancy) wants me to stay on after April 1st, working through an umbrella. So the consultancy's client pays the consultancy for my work, the consultancy then pays the agency, the consultancy then pays the umbrella company, and the umbrella company pays me. It's ridiculous. At least two of the parties in this arrangement are not contributing anything very useful.

What makes you think if the agency did your payroll they wouldn't take an extra cut? Of course they would cos you'd allow them as your alternative would be to find an umbrella who will take a cut.

[mogga71]

Good. I don't understand why umbrella companies even need to exist (although no doubt some smartarse will be happy to explain to me how stupid I am).

If a client wants my services but doesn't want to engage me via my limited company, and they don't want to actually, you know, employ me (God forbid), why can't the recruitment agency do all the payroll stuff? I don't need yet another middle-man taking a cut.

My current client (a consultancy) wants me to stay on after April 1st, working through an umbrella. So the consultancy's client pays the consultancy for my work, the consultancy then pays the agency, the consultancy then pays the umbrella company, and the umbrella company pays me. It's ridiculous. At least two of the parties in this arrangement are not contributing anything very useful.

LOL ... top post.

The whole thing is crazy. The sheer lunacy of some clients telling their contractors that they now have to use an Umbrella ... meaning the contractors effectively then need to employ an employer.

One thing worth noting though ... some contractors (me included) had the choice of using my agents PAYE or an Umbrella. I chose an Umbrella due to them allowing full 40k pension payments without first paying employer NI. My agency refused to do it ... and as far as I can tell, so do most others.

[CatBlack]

Just received a mail from my agency saying Client will no longer engage individuals who operate under PSC's AND will not be allowing umbrella companies into the supply chain. This is coming into effect 1st April.

Good. I don't understand why umbrella companies even need to exist (although no doubt some smartarse will be happy to explain to me how stupid I am).

If a client wants my services but doesn't want to engage me via my limited company, and they don't want to actually, you know, employ me (God forbid), why can't the recruitment agency do all the payroll stuff? I don't need yet another middle-man taking a cut.

My current client (a consultancy) wants me to stay on after April 1st, working through an umbrella. So the consultancy's client pays the consultancy for my work, the consultancy then pays the agency, the consultancy then pays the umbrella company, and the umbrella company pays me. It's ridiculous. At least two of the parties in this arrangement are not contributing anything very useful.

[mogga71]

Depending on how you read the transfer of debt provisions within the new IR35 rules it makes perfect sense to me.

Unless the end client is 100% sure of their supply chain the risk is theirs. And just because the umbrella is an FCSA member that may not be enough.

Surely if that were the case then all the Banks would have also banned the use of Umbrellas instead of advocating them? The Banks were the ones that got the blanket 'everybody now inside' ball rolling and employ more contractors than anybody else in the private sector. They would have most to lose wouldn't they?

Cue email in next few days saying I need to abandon my Umbrella.

[eek]

TBH mate I would go back to the Client and ask ... 'Are you sure about that?' ... as that makes absolutely zero sense. I would wager that somebody somewhere has got their wires crossed and view PSC's and Umbrella Companies as the same thing.

Depending on how you read the transfer of debt provisions within the new IR35 rules it makes perfect sense to me.

Unless the end client is 100% sure of their supply chain the risk is theirs. And just because the umbrella is an FCSA member that may not be enough.

[mogga71]

I've been working via my own Ltd Co for years. I finished last Feb and managed to get a contract last Sept but client wouldn't allow suppliers to provide resources via PSC, so joined an Umbrella and took the hit in rate; anything during COVID was a plus.

Just received a mail from my agency saying Client will no longer engage individuals who operate under PSC's AND will not be allowing umbrella companies into the supply chain. This is coming into effect 1st April.

What now?

TBH mate I would go back to the Client and ask ... 'Are you sure about that?' ... as that makes absolutely zero sense. I would wager that somebody somewhere has got their wires crossed and view PSC's and Umbrella Companies as the same thing.

[sira]

And as tedious as they are they are always the right advice. He's in a pickle with what his agency have told him about his situation. The agency should also have a solution and know what is possible in his situation so they are the best people to advise. If an agency said to you no LTDS and no Umbrellas, surely your next question would be 'So what do I do now?' and they tell you? How are we supposed to know?

PAYE would be the only remaining option. Or turn permanent I guess.

[NotAllThere]

Jesus wept, do you ever give it a rest?

Nearly 50,000 posts and all variations of "have you asked your accountant?" or "did you try searching?". What an existence.

28 posts since 2012 and has an opinion on NLUK? Hmmmm.

[northernladuk]

Jesus wept, do you ever give it a rest?

Nearly 50,000 posts and all variations of "have you asked your accountant?" or "did you try searching?". What an existence.

And as tedious as they are they are always the right advice. He's in a pickle with what his agency have told him about his situation. The agency should also have a solution and know what is possible in his situation so they are the best people to advise. If an agency said to you no LTDS and no Umbrellas, surely your next question would be 'So what do I do now?' and they tell you? How are we supposed to know?

[ensignia]

I think that's because where other people encountered it they asked the agent, 'so what next?' and the agent gave them an answer so they just carried on.

Jesus wept, do you ever give it a rest?

Nearly 50,000 posts and all variations of "have you asked your accountant?" or "did you try searching?". What an existence.