Woodrow Mercer - IR35 Webinar

[Paralytic]

The work will be there - it is just that the only work being offered will be inside IR35 - companies won't be willing to take the risk on HMRC deciding to make them a test case.

This; it's not that contracting will be dead, but contracts available via Ltd companies will be decimated (even veering towards the literal sense, in that I'd not be surprised if just 10% of contracts remain allowed via a PSC).

[eek]

I just don't think the contractor market is going to die - shrink yes and many who jumped on the bandwagon will fall off with the turbulence.

The fact remains if you are skilled, experienced, knowledgeable and demonstrate value there will always be work - that need has never gone away in the years since IR35 was introduced.

We will ride this out!

The work will be there - it is just that the only work being offered will be inside IR35 - companies won't be willing to take the risk on HMRC deciding to make them a test case.

If it hadn't been for Covid I would have expected some companies would eventually find it difficult to recruit people so would end up having to go outside but I don't think that's the case now. A lot of the agencies call I've had have discouraged that hope.

[silverlight1]

I just don't think the contractor market is going to die - shrink yes and many who jumped on the bandwagon will fall off with the turbulence.

The fact remains if you are skilled, experienced, knowledgeable and demonstrate value there will always be work - that need has never gone away in the years since IR35 was introduced.

We will ride this out!

[malvolio]

What part of the client issuing an SDS (or avoiding contractors altogether) didn't you understand?

None of it thanks.

You can speculate all you like about what might emerge in N years, but the legislation from 6 April is what it is.

That rather depends what you do for a living. Are you one of the 0.5m or so freelance contractors in IT and Engineering depending on BigCo support or one of the 4.5m who don't? Or someone with a network that gets you work as an external supplier? And yes I know this is an IT contractor's forum.

[jamesbrown]

Disagree - but let's leave it there for a year or so...

What part of the client issuing an SDS (or avoiding contractors altogether) didn't you understand?

You can speculate all you like about what might emerge in N years, but the legislation from 6 April is what it is.

[malvolio]

It isn't about "you" anymore, unless you deal with overseas clients or work for designated small companies.

Disagree - but let's leave it there for a year or so...

[jamesbrown]

Well yes, it will.

Unless, of course, you know how to circumvent the rules properly and avoid being inside IR35. Which is probably beyond a lot of people.

It isn't about "you" anymore, unless you deal with overseas clients or work for designated small companies.

[malvolio]

And end clients want an easy risk free life without HMRC knocking on the door.

Which is why contracting as we know it dies in April.

Well yes, it will.

Unless, of course, you know how to circumvent the rules properly and avoid being inside IR35. Which is probably beyond a lot of people.

[eek]

Agencies talk about employers because they are in the business of selling warm bodies to corporate entities.

We, on the other hand, are trying to sell skills and knowledge on a commercial basis to someone willing to pay for it (and who thinks we are worth having).

The whole 20-odd year anti-IR35 campaign has been predicated us being suppliers, and not as temporary employees.

I will agree that the majority of "contractors" fail to make that distinction. However that is their problem and is actually nothing to do with the validity or otherwise of HMG's position on IR35 and, indeed, the whole knowledge and gig economies, nor the arguments being put forward to defend our position.

So yes, the use of the word "employer" by an agency is to be expected, but it does not mean that they understand or even recognise the differences. Which is why we have a real problem, because HMG takes advice from agencies - directly and via REC and friends - and so sticks with its employer/employee mindset.

Like it or not, the difference is important.

And FWIW, I've been talking to agencies and clients for around 15 years on the subject. Some have even listened...

And end clients want an easy risk free life without HMRC knocking on the door.

Which is why contracting as we know it dies in April.

[vwdan]

I'm speaking after 4 weeks of speaking to senior people at agencies refining a solution to some of the April 21 issues..

If your client actually regards you as a external consultant you really are an extreme exception and definitely not the rule... Companies use Agencies because they want an employee (light) like relationship rather than an external consultancy one.

Agencies say a lot of things. I wouldn't believe most of them if they told me the sky was blue, and I sincerely fail to see how it's material. If they're referring to us as employees then they are wrong and need correcting.

Maybe I am this extreme exception in a sea of permietractors, but I can hand on heart say all of my clients knew precisely what I was all about and never confused me for, or treated me as an employee. If they came close, I spoke to them and clarified the position.