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The dark side calls.

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  • KinooOrKinog
    replied
    Originally posted by HugeWhale View Post
    You know you'll regret it, don't you?

    You've heard that going back to perm never lasts more than a year. I'd heard that too, but I thought that I would be different. Oh yes.
    As someone who has walked this road let me tell you how it panned out for me.

    I'd got a bit tired of being away from home so often. I also felt that I had made enough money contracting and as I was offered a permie job that was commutable from home I took it. I thought I'd do it for a final few years as I eased gracefully into retirement. Seemed perfect, right?
    I lasted a year before I had to quit too. Not had to as in 'forced out' but for my own sanity.

    If you've been contracting for a while becoming a permie again is just horrid. You have probably forgotten what it was like: team meetings, lack of decision-making, needing to consult on everything (getting every brain in the game, even the dumb ones), absurd appraisals (I'm old school: if you don't want me, tell me to **** off and I'll go. But please don't torment me with developmental reviews and how I can improve my performance. Just **** right off!), team building activities, grievances, forced interactions with arseholes across the company, playing corporate games, woke whingeing at its finest, and generally becoming a suit, a drone, a Borg.
    Also, you can't get anything done at all. You identify a training need for one of your staff, say, then spend months fighting HR, budgets, the training liaison manager or whoever to arrange the training and eventually just give up because the bureaucracy is impenetrable.
    You want a new USB? As a contractor, you ask the client to provide one and if they don't, so what? Their ball, their game. But as an employee, it's now your ball and your game. You have to fight procurement and budgets, IT and IS security and if you're lucky you may get one in a month...all for a ******* USB!

    You have to deal with staff and all of their petty tulipe, such as -
    I need to work from home ALL ******* DAY because, well, take your pick: My dog's ill/I'm a lazy ****/If you complain I'll go straight to HR and mire you in a grievance/the precedent is set/INSET day at the school/I have a hole in my arse
    You asking me to actually do some ******* work is putting me under pressure. I feel harassed. Here come the unions and HR to tie you up in grievances and paperwork for the rest of your life......
    Why have you ranked person B above me? Is it because I am the youngest/oldest/fattest/thinnest? You're discriminating against young/old/fat/thin people! [Real answer - because you're a lazy twat who does **** all but complain]

    Honestly, all permies do is ******* whinge. As a contractor it ain't your problem. As their boss, it is now your problem.

    Come back in 12 months and let us know how you got on.
    Absolutely spot on. You hit the nail on the head! I went permanent in 2015 & I lasted four months. I'm not proud of that but more or less from day one I regretted it & just had this overwhelming feeling of dread every day until the day I left. Hideous.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesbrown
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • oliverson
    replied
    Originally posted by HugeWhale View Post
    You know you'll regret it, don't you?

    You've heard that going back to perm never lasts more than a year. I'd heard that too, but I thought that I would be different. Oh yes.
    As someone who has walked this road let me tell you how it panned out for me.

    I'd got a bit tired of being away from home so often. I also felt that I had made enough money contracting and as I was offered a permie job that was commutable from home I took it. I thought I'd do it for a final few years as I eased gracefully into retirement. Seemed perfect, right?
    I lasted a year before I had to quit too. Not had to as in 'forced out' but for my own sanity.

    If you've been contracting for a while becoming a permie again is just horrid. You have probably forgotten what it was like: team meetings, lack of decision-making, needing to consult on everything (getting every brain in the game, even the dumb ones), absurd appraisals (I'm old school: if you don't want me, tell me to **** off and I'll go. But please don't torment me with developmental reviews and how I can improve my performance. Just **** right off!), team building activities, grievances, forced interactions with arseholes across the company, playing corporate games, woke whingeing at its finest, and generally becoming a suit, a drone, a Borg.
    Also, you can't get anything done at all. You identify a training need for one of your staff, say, then spend months fighting HR, budgets, the training liaison manager or whoever to arrange the training and eventually just give up because the bureaucracy is impenetrable.
    You want a new USB? As a contractor, you ask the client to provide one and if they don't, so what? Their ball, their game. But as an employee, it's now your ball and your game. You have to fight procurement and budgets, IT and IS security and if you're lucky you may get one in a month...all for a ******* USB!

    You have to deal with staff and all of their petty tulipe, such as -
    I need to work from home ALL ******* DAY because, well, take your pick: My dog's ill/I'm a lazy ****/If you complain I'll go straight to HR and mire you in a grievance/the precedent is set/INSET day at the school/I have a hole in my arse
    You asking me to actually do some ******* work is putting me under pressure. I feel harassed. Here come the unions and HR to tie you up in grievances and paperwork for the rest of your life......
    Why have you ranked person B above me? Is it because I am the youngest/oldest/fattest/thinnest? You're discriminating against young/old/fat/thin people! [Real answer - because you're a lazy twat who does **** all but complain]

    Honestly, all permies do is ******* whinge. As a contractor it ain't your problem. As their boss, it is now your problem.

    Come back in 12 months and let us know how you got on.

    Your forgot about your 'doing work for charity/community' day and 'bake off' competitions.

    Leave a comment:


  • HugeWhale
    replied
    You know you'll regret it, don't you?

    You've heard that going back to perm never lasts more than a year. I'd heard that too, but I thought that I would be different. Oh yes.
    As someone who has walked this road let me tell you how it panned out for me.

    I'd got a bit tired of being away from home so often. I also felt that I had made enough money contracting and as I was offered a permie job that was commutable from home I took it. I thought I'd do it for a final few years as I eased gracefully into retirement. Seemed perfect, right?
    I lasted a year before I had to quit too. Not had to as in 'forced out' but for my own sanity.

    If you've been contracting for a while becoming a permie again is just horrid. You have probably forgotten what it was like: team meetings, lack of decision-making, needing to consult on everything (getting every brain in the game, even the dumb ones), absurd appraisals (I'm old school: if you don't want me, tell me to **** off and I'll go. But please don't torment me with developmental reviews and how I can improve my performance. Just **** right off!), team building activities, grievances, forced interactions with arseholes across the company, playing corporate games, woke whingeing at its finest, and generally becoming a suit, a drone, a Borg.
    Also, you can't get anything done at all. You identify a training need for one of your staff, say, then spend months fighting HR, budgets, the training liaison manager or whoever to arrange the training and eventually just give up because the bureaucracy is impenetrable.
    You want a new USB? As a contractor, you ask the client to provide one and if they don't, so what? Their ball, their game. But as an employee, it's now your ball and your game. You have to fight procurement and budgets, IT and IS security and if you're lucky you may get one in a month...all for a ******* USB!

    You have to deal with staff and all of their petty tulipe, such as -
    I need to work from home ALL ******* DAY because, well, take your pick: My dog's ill/I'm a lazy ****/If you complain I'll go straight to HR and mire you in a grievance/the precedent is set/INSET day at the school/I have a hole in my arse
    You asking me to actually do some ******* work is putting me under pressure. I feel harassed. Here come the unions and HR to tie you up in grievances and paperwork for the rest of your life......
    Why have you ranked person B above me? Is it because I am the youngest/oldest/fattest/thinnest? You're discriminating against young/old/fat/thin people! [Real answer - because you're a lazy twat who does **** all but complain]

    Honestly, all permies do is ******* whinge. As a contractor it ain't your problem. As their boss, it is now your problem.

    Come back in 12 months and let us know how you got on.

    Leave a comment:


  • fargaman
    replied
    Yes, should have mentioned, that includes what they say is base bonus. So perhaps that number is less attractive than it appears.
    Total base is around 100k ex pension, bonus etc.
    It's still a very generous offer.
    I am noticing many colleagues in other banks being offered similar. They tend to be working on mission critical front office projects, have lots of domain/ business knowledge and know the systems inside out.
    I think businesses are very very scared of having these guys walk because they've accumulated so much key man risk.

    Leave a comment:


  • technobabble
    replied
    Sounds good

    That does sound a good offer. You can always accept and hang in there for six months or a year then see if anything else comes along. I am newly back to the UK and I'm not sure what the world has in store after April, so your offer nicely gets you through that period and if the people are good also its a winner.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paralytic
    replied
    It'd be interesting to see what they include in the £143K package, eg, does it include a 20-30% bonus that is dependant on you (and the company) meeting its targets. I've seen some packages where they include every benefit you get or could use (eg, subsidised staff canteen, that's worth £1500 a year, include that, health benefits, £2000 premiums, include that etc etc etc).

    Or are you saying the £143K is salary + pension contributions only?

    But, unless they are at it, and its actually base £70K + plus lots of benefits, bit their hand off.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesbrown
    replied
    Originally posted by rogerfederer View Post
    I note this is 'total package', but this sounds like a very senior role. What are you actually doing?

    Keep in mind permies have no security until the 2 year mark, and even then it's realistically 3 or 4 years these days for any reasonable redundancy payment. Regardless, I suggest taking this if you're happy enough with the role.

    What area are you working in and at what level? Director?
    It sounds to me as though they've simply FUBARed with their offer, so the OP should probably accept it. A day rate of 600 would normally fall far south of 143k as a permie role. As the OP alluded to, this wasn't a market-based calculation, rather some sort of contract-to-permie mapping and they probably even FUBARed that. If you slot it into something like this, it's in the same ballpark:

    But that's a literal equivalence after tax and is otherwise a fantasy so, either they will backtrack, or it's happy days for the OP (assuming they can stomach being a permie ).
    Last edited by Contractor UK; 28 June 2020, 11:26.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogerfederer
    replied
    Originally posted by fargaman View Post
    <snip>
    day rate £600.

    have been offered a perm or fixed contract position. total package (including pension contributions) is 143k
    + health care, life insurance, income protection and various bits and pieces.
    <snip>
    I note this is 'total package', but this sounds like a very senior role. What are you actually doing?

    Keep in mind permies have no security until the 2 year mark, and even then it's realistically 3 or 4 years these days for any reasonable redundancy payment. Regardless, I suggest taking this if you're happy enough with the role.

    What area are you working in and at what level? Director?

    Leave a comment:


  • GhostofTarbera
    replied
    Originally posted by uk contractor View Post
    Take the 143K but clearly when they find out their mistake your either going to be asked to reduce or they will make your position go away do not expect to earn that for long as someone will notice sooner or later (probably before the offer is ever formally sent HR or compliance will find out the error!).
    Indeed when program director finds out some ex contractor yonk is getting 40K more than him - he is toast




    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

    Leave a comment:

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