Investment Banking to Civil Service... thoughts welcome

[washed up contractor]

Best reply I think, thanks.

You are partly right off course, you would never ever want the CS to become like an IB shop and lets face it, we all know that’s not what I meant.

What I really meant was the pace - getting programmes to continue moving at speed and stick to time-budget-quality that’s all.

I would agree that CS suddenly being like an IB would be self defeating.

Thanks for all the replies, very interesting stuff and I am still deciding whether I will be moving!

LOL! I just told you what my 20+ years experience in a big Civil Service Department was like. I can honestly tell you, you will have zip chance of changing the culture. There are people who have probably spent 25 to 30 years of their career in whichever department you go to and they will push back against someone wanting to act like a new broom.

That is not to say you may not be able to take a few short cuts and make some improvements at local level but you're not going to get anywhere challenging a UG7 grade. And even if you did you will likely find the UG5 above will back his \ her underling.

[HugeWhale]

Well, that does not sound like me or the environment I am used to. I have been known to take Programme short cuts and risks which in turn successfully helped us to be that much nearer on time / budget / quality...

Successful to date hence the extra responsibilities etc but hey, I could go into the Civil Service and help to change it! Get them to move at our IB speed!

Following Prince2 to the letter sounds slowwwwwww

Ps I know that wanting to change the Civil Service to become more like IB is probably a pipe dream, but you never know, every little change will help

The civil service has been around in one shape or another for maybe 2,000 years, right the way back to Roman tax collectors and administrators. If you think you can change it then good luck.

The scope of work is so broad that there is no definitive answer to your questions. The most fun jobs in the country are in the civil service: I know, I've been lucky to do some of them. Then again, if you end up in an area processing child benefit claims by the shedload it is likely to be repetitive and boring. Alternatively, if you're supporting Special Forces in theatre then I doubt very much that you will be bored. And I doubt very much if those MI6 boys really have too much to learn from Investment Banking.

Get in with the Intelligence Services, the Foreign Office or Cabinet Office and you can be doing some great stuff. Give DWP, HMRC and the Home Office a wide berth.

[SueEllen]

The civil service has been around in one shape or another for maybe 2,000 years, right the way back to Roman tax collectors and administrators. If you think you can change it then good luck.

The scope of work is so broad that there is no definitive answer to your questions. The most fun jobs in the country are in the civil service: I know, I've been lucky to do some of them. Then again, if you end up in an area processing child benefit claims by the shedload it is likely to be repetitive and boring. Alternatively, if you're supporting Special Forces in theatre then I doubt very much that you will be bored. And I doubt very much if those MI6 boys really have too much to learn from Investment Banking.

Get in with the Intelligence Services, the Foreign Office or Cabinet Office and you can be doing some great stuff. Give DWP, HMRC and the Home Office a wide berth.

Get in on some inter-department projects and you can have a lot of fun.

[Glencky]

Interesting thread. My background: Cornish born and bred; worked in London for a year post-graduation; Wiltshire for a FS graduate scheme, 12 years as a permie there and since then, 4 years contracting internationally, M4 corridor and London including a bit of banking (all FS), whilst still based in Wiltshire.

First question - why IB to Civil Service, particularly? There is loads of FS along the M4 corridor and South Coast, you don't need to change sector completely to leave London. Rates aren't as good as CW or IB in general but the difference in cost of living makes a massive difference and personally, whilst I do work in London it's not really cost-justified on travel time & cost vs rates as rates are good closer to home, too.

More generally, I've found a lot of Londoners (if Londoner you are) have misconceptions about general pace of life and lifestyle in 'the West Country' - it's obviously very variable between different parts of the West Country (centre of Bristol rather different to rural Wiltshire, for example..) I appreciate this seems like I'm pointing out the bleeding obvious but I know a surprising number of people who feel anything outside the M25 is 'rural' and most of them don't even realise they're thinking like that. When you start your day at 6am in Wiltshire ready to travel to Canary Wharf as I often have been, the contrast between the two is stark (it's part of what I enjoy) but it does throw issues like this into sharp relief. Do you really want to live somewhere you can't get easy access to the kind of theatres, restaurants and 'everything else' that not only London but wider environs typically provides? If the answer is yes, great (and it's not like the whole SW is totally devoid of these things!) but many people don't realise how much they value the facilities London brings until they move, sadly.

As with projects, I think you need to have a very clear vision of what you're trying to achieve. Is it 'just' work/ life balance? The dream home? More time with family? totally different work environment? I think the decisions then flow from there. But if you don't already have a lot of experience of spending time in the west country, really important to e.g. rent somewhere for a bit before you randomly buy.

I wish you well, whatever you decide!

[PermMCCon]

Thank you all for your replies and advice. I mean it. Anyone who wrote here gave up their time to do so.

This is a quick update in return:

I spoke to my wife at length and we did some weekends in our chosen location... in the end agreed that we may be circa 5 years too early for it...

We are very lucky to be in a position where the mortgage may be paid off in that period, which would then make the move far easier (ie the much lower salaries in the West wouldn’t be as big an issue for us).

But this has been good for us, instead of always dreaming, we made a 5 year plan to focus on owning the house mortgage free and go from there.

But thank you all anyway and this should make you happy - my team make up at the moment is 80% contractors!!!

[edison]

Thank you all for your replies and advice. I mean it. Anyone who wrote here gave up their time to do so.

This is a quick update in return:

I spoke to my wife at length and we did some weekends in our chosen location... in the end agreed that we may be circa 5 years too early for it...

We are very lucky to be in a position where the mortgage may be paid off in that period, which would then make the move far easier (ie the much lower salaries in the West wouldn’t be as big an issue for us).

But this has been good for us, instead of always dreaming, we made a 5 year plan to focus on owning the house mortgage free and go from there.

But thank you all anyway and this should make you happy - my team make up at the moment is 80% contractors!!!

Sounds like you've made up your mind but have you considered other alternatives to the west country and Civil Service or public sector e.g. a charity? I worked for one of the largest charities in the UK based in London not so long ago and the pay rates for senior IT roles were fairly decent. I was tempted to return as a permie when they introduced some new Director level roles at over 100k salary which is pretty good compared to private sector.

I've worked for 6 or 7 FTSE 100 / Fortune 500 companies and can honestly say the charity job had the best work/life balance and overall satisfaction. It was very interesting work too.

[LondonManc]

If you've got a dream house in mind, or more specifically an area of the west of England, e.g. Somerset, and enough money to not worry about actual salary as long as it's, say, 40k min, then go perm. Do your 9-5 in a job well below what you're doing now because it will be easy enough for you to do so.
Why throw yourself open to the risk of the contracting market in an area with a poor contract market when you can have your ideal home and perfect work/life balance? 15 minute drive to work from a lovely house, non-stretching yet rewarding work, nowhere near the pressures of IB (been there, done that, straight out of the office on CW at 23:05 on a Saturday night into a taxi to make it back to my local on time) and with a load of experience to bring to what you're doing.

[1manshow]

Sounds like you've made up your mind but have you considered other alternatives to the west country and Civil Service or public sector e.g. a charity? I worked for one of the largest charities in the UK based in London not so long ago and the pay rates for senior IT roles were fairly decent. I was tempted to return as a permie when they introduced some new Director level roles at over 100k salary which is pretty good compared to private sector.

I've worked for 6 or 7 FTSE 100 / Fortune 500 companies and can honestly say the charity job had the best work/life balance and overall satisfaction. It was very interesting work too.

It is pretty alarming to hear how much money people have donated for a good cause is being spent on salary

[LondonManc]

It is pretty alarming to hear how much money people have donated for a good cause is being spent on salary

Nothing compared to when the politicians get involved in charity work

[edison]

It is pretty alarming to hear how much money people have donated for a good cause is being spent on salary

Well, how much do you think people should be paid to work at a major charity? If you think you are going to get people working in professional fields like Finance, Legal and even IT etc working for peanuts, think again. The major charity sector is competitive and commercially orientated, the role I mentioned was one of the most senior roles in the whole organisation. Many senior people in charities have already taken very large pay cuts to transfer from private sector.

I was only referring to basic salary, other than that, there were few monetary benefits. Compare that to my private sector permie jobs where I've had share options, quite large bonuses, car, private healthcare, generous pension etc which increased my salary by anything up to 50-100%.