Flown to the UK for a contract, but informed on arrival the contract cannot yet start

[sal]

I this morning attended the UCAS building and spoke to the project manager and the HR recruiter handling my contract.

There had not been at any time a completed and signed contract between UCAS and Hays.

Hays' assurance to me that all the paperwork was complete was incorrect.

I will now discuss the matter with Hays and see what they say.

UCAS were talking in terms of the start date being tomorrow. Hays in their email on Friday indicated that normally they would have a response within seven working days. The disparity of expectations are such that it is then not yet clear then what will occur. It does seem very likely a contract will emerge, but by being only very likely is not actually certain.

If the client wants you and the only hurdle is Hays, it will probably be OK.

[Toebs]

I take it they have informed you if the contract is IR35 caught or not?

A very good question.

I asked Hays prior to signing if the contract was inside or outside of IR35.

I was informed it was outside.

I'm afraid in my inexperience I took their answer at face value. I do know better than this, but I have to think about it to catch myself making this type of mistake.

I have since then investigated the issue more closely and I think I need to obtain IR35 insurance from QDos. They will review the contract between Hays and myself, and provide any changes necessary to be outside IR35.

The question remains of the contract between Hays and UCAS, which is not accessable to me.

I have asked Hays in general about the contracts if they has been reviewed with regard to being defensible as outside of IR35, if so by whom, and if Hays stand by their claim to the extent of covering the legal costs of any claim by the State, but no reply yet.

I do not expect they will stand by their contract to the extent of covering the legal costs of a claim. As such, any assurance from them is essentially worthless, as Hays bear no direct cost in the event of being incorrect.

I am rather concluding (from this and previous experiences) agencies normally are a huge pain in the ass. For their pay, they provide services of obstruction, delay, misinformation and incompetence.

[Toebs]

If the client wants you and the only hurdle is Hays, it will probably be OK.

This is my feeling also.

[TheFaQQer]

I have since then investigated the issue more closely and I think I need to obtain IR35 insurance from QDos. They will review the contract between Hays and myself, and provide any changes necessary to be outside IR35.

Are you preparing yourself for a situation where you want to make contract amendments and Hays refuse to make them? Would you suck them up or walk away?

I do not expect they will stand by their contract to the extent of covering the legal costs of a claim.

I'll save you the time waiting for an answer - they won't.

Good IR35 investigation cover is vital for peace of mind, and it's well worth looking around at the best options. For example some insurers have an excess of £250 on any claim, whereas cover provided against tax investigations via membership of a trade association would have no excess at all (meaning that if you need to claim, the insurance seller is immediately more expensive than the trade association, even if you ignore the plethora of other benefits).

[Toebs]

Are you preparing yourself for a situation where you want to make contract amendments and Hays refuse to make them? Would you suck them up or walk away?

A very good question.

Since I have (again, in my inexperience) signed, any changes can come only with their agreement.

Googling indicates other contractors having been successful in asking for IR35-related changes to Hays contracts, so I have some hope - on the other hand, my dimming view of agencies goes against that hope.

I'll save you the time waiting for an answer - they won't.

Good IR35 investigation cover is vital for peace of mind, and it's well worth looking around at the best options. For example some insurers have an excess of £250 on any claim, whereas cover provided against tax investigations via membership of a trade association would have no excess at all (meaning that if you need to claim, the insurance seller is immediately more expensive than the trade association, even if you ignore the plethora of other benefits).

IR35 insurance - full insurance, including against the taxes to be paid if an IR35 claim succeeds - seems to cost so much less than the potential losses than it's a no-brainer.

The problem for me I think is if I present the contract to QDos, they consider it outside, ask for changes, and Hays refuse those changes. I suspect in that scenario, given QDos will have deemed the contract indefensible, I will need to leave, to cut my exposure and potential losses.

[Toebs]

I emailed Hays today.

There was no reply.

I thought the discussion would be easier in email, so I waited until 4.30pm before phoning.

I phoned, and was put through to not the original member of staff who handled the case (who was on holiday for a week, and is now unwell), nor the second (who had emailed me) but a third.

I explained the issue was not that the contract was being negotiated, but that after I had explicitly instructed Hays I would only relocate when all the paperwork was complete, I had been assured all the papework was complete.

This member of staff explained the problem lay with UCAS as they had requested changes in their standard contract between UCAS and Hays.

This meant a contract had not been signed at the time I had been assured a contract had been signed, which was the key issue, and the issue I had just explicitly described.

I did not say this to him as this was clear, and therefore it seemed being intentionally ignored.

I am continuing now with my earlier in-flight contracts, and have an interview on Wednesday. I have explained the situation to them.

I expect this contract will occur, although there is some uncertainty as the legal departments are still discussing the contract and until that is settled, it is not settled.

[Eirikur]

Googling indicates other contractors having been successful in asking for IR35-related changes to Hays contracts, so I have some hope - on the other hand, my dimming view of agencies goes against that hope.

Hays changed my contract after QDOS failed it and accepted most recommendations, this is about 3 years ago. Probably it depends on which part of Hays you're dealing with.

[Toebs]

Hays changed my contract after QDOS failed it and accepted most recommendations, this is about 3 years ago. Probably it depends on which part of Hays you're dealing with.

I'll report back with the outcome, when I have it.

[psychocandy]

I emailed Hays today.

There was no reply.

I thought the discussion would be easier in email, so I waited until 4.30pm before phoning.

I phoned, and was put through to not the original member of staff who handled the case (who was on holiday for a week, and is now unwell), nor the second (who had emailed me) but a third.

I explained the issue was not that the contract was being negotiated, but that after I had explicitly instructed Hays I would only relocate when all the paperwork was complete, I had been assured all the papework was complete.

This member of staff explained the problem lay with UCAS as they had requested changes in their standard contract between UCAS and Hays.

This meant a contract had not been signed at the time I had been assured a contract had been signed, which was the key issue, and the issue I had just explicitly described.

I did not say this to him as this was clear, and therefore it seemed being intentionally ignored.

I am continuing now with my earlier in-flight contracts, and have an interview on Wednesday. I have explained the situation to them.

I expect this contract will occur, although there is some uncertainty as the legal departments are still discussing the contract and until that is settled, it is not settled.

Sounds like Hays just cannot be bothered now. Id be surprised if this contract happened now.

They lied to you up front, possibly its fallen through, they don't care its caused you hassle. Personally, I wouldnt have commited to being more than £10 out of pocket with these idiots unless it was sorted.

[Scruff]

There is no Agency who will amend your contract, once you have signed it (particularly if the term(s) that you wish to amend are detrimental to themselves).