Contracting issue, client trying to treat me like an employee and to pay me less than

[Chelseagirl]

There are two aspects here. One are the commercial terms of the contract and the other is the IR35 aspect. Sounds like you might have sorted the commercial terms but I'd be willing to be it's an utter disaster for IR35. Doesn't sound like they'd accept a sub even if it was in the contract (and written properly). You really need the contract reviewed before you sign anything. Make sure you get it reviewed this time. I've a feeling you are going to have a nasty surprise.

That said working practices trump your contract. At those rates it sounds like temping more than contracting to me. What exactly are you doing? If they want a temp it won't matter how much they massage the contract, your working practice will trump it and your IR35 status should change. If they want to manage you to this level when you are on such a low rate it's going to be very difficult to argue you are a highly skilled professional and expect to be treated as such.

I think your time on this one is probably up and time to go somewhere else, for more than one reason.

Hello, I tried to explain IR35 to the Vice President(he said he’s never heard about it) and that I couldn’t attend employee fonctions and meetings because I would be considered an employee for tax purposes. You want to know his reaction? He laughed at me and said it was bulltulip, he said “as far as I’m concerned you’re an employee and you’re part of the team, if I care about your well-being, I don’t see what it has to do with HMRC” so that’s when I told him I couldn’t stay if he chose to be so narrow-minded.

I was Freelance UK content manager for a retailer.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I have done exactly that. I am not in IT, I was freelance UK content manager for a retail company.

Good for you. I hope you find a client who will respect your position as a freelancer and pay you a decent rate.

[northernladuk]

So you cannot be outside IR35 then. You better have a word with your accountant.

That said I hope you said more to him than attending functions and meetings as that on its own is a pretty poor argument.

[Chelseagirl]

OP start looking for another contract today. If the measly difference was an issue to the client (I know you say they agreed more now but even £3K per month is not great unless your in your early 20s) then ruffling feathers about meetings is going to trigger the client finding a replacement for you behind your back sooner or later they will view you as obstructive & not a yes person.


Either take the meetings carry on billing keep your head down & look elsewhere or turn it around somehow. But already the client has probably made notes on you being a troublemaker (even if your not). I once had an issue with an Investment Banking client. The line manager wanted me to work unsocial hours all weekend outside my contract as his perms refused to do the work unpaid. I politely explained to him the agent had promised me x2 daily rate for weekend work & the line manager did not like this one little bit as I also told him the agency had on my contract no out of hours work without prior in writing permission from the agency!


Agency did not bother mentioning this to the end client so the manager was very upset as he thought I was being awkward to screw more money out of him when I was just having the discussion the agent bottled about out of hour rates! Anyway, only reason I mention this is that after that even though I did the out of hours work & the end client even paid me more than he needed to he also flagged me internally as someone who was awkward (even though I was just talking about what the contract stated in writing) so 12 months after the contract ended the end client had another big project but as he had flagged me as someone who was awkward he used another agency & another contractor instead of coming back to me all because I stood up for my contractual rights & had the talk with him the account manager agent (who had by then left) did not want to have!!


Its not even about right or wrong its all about perception & when your a contractor perception is everything to the end client they expect the unreasonable most of the time as your just a balance sheet resource to many of them like a photocopier, printer, or any other office tool you care to mention!

I have quit.

[Chelseagirl]

So you cannot be outside IR35 then. You better have a word with your accountant.

That said I hope you said more to him than attending functions and meetings as that on its own is a pretty poor argument.

I pulled out the HRMC web page and started listing.

[northernladuk]

I pulled out the HRMC web page and started listing.

Oh dear

[Chelseagirl]

Oh dear

Hahaha, on a more serious note I thought it was quite concerning he has never heard of the IR 35 test.

I explained to him what it meant in terms of how I do my work and manage my own time and he basically called me antisocial...I mean he’s the Vice President of a company, surely he should know what that is? I found his ignorance pathetic.

[northernladuk]

Hahaha, on a more serious note I thought it was quite concerning he has never heard of the IR 35 test.

I explained to him what it meant in terms of how I do my work and manage my own time and he basically called me antisocial...I mean he’s the Vice President of a company, surely he should know what that is? I found his ignorance pathetic.

I was being serious. IR35 isn't tick box and the last resource you need is the HMRC's. It isn't concerning. They didn't want a contractor, they want a temp. It's as simple as that and it's game over for you. Nothing more you can do here except pay the proper taxes and pay travel and subsistence back and move on.

I'm more concerned you had to go through HMRC's list to try and prove you are a contractor.

[uk contractor]

I have quit.

Good for you & the right decision you come across as confident enough to believe in your own abilities so I am absolutely certain you will have something else more suitable very soon.

[Chelseagirl]

I was being serious. IR35 isn't tick box and the last resource you need is the HMRC's. It isn't concerning. They didn't want a contractor, they want a temp. It's as simple as that and it's game over for you. Nothing more you can do here except pay the proper taxes and pay travel and subsistence back and move on.

I'm more concerned you had to go through HMRC's list to try and prove you are a contractor.

I didn’t have to prove I was a contractor I was just explaining how IR35 works to them and how it limited my duties to what was written in the contract as opposed to what they were expecting (more work unrelated to the project I was assigned, filling in for missing employees, working on other projects not mentioned in the contract). I have quit now but when I was there I was managing my own time, I was working exclusively on the agreed project, I had the liberty to choose how to perform the work as long as it was delivered on time, there was no mention of mutual obligation in the contract and I was not restricted from working with other clients.

I resisted their demands for three weeks. They tried to push them on me and I said no which is why I quit.

Good for you & the right decision you come across as confident enough to believe in your own abilities so I am absolutely certain you will have something else more suitable very soon.

Thank you for your kind words. I don’t think I had another option as I laid out the situation to them in regards to IR35 and they still didn’t want to hear a thing saying “we don’t think it has anything to do with HRMC if we want to ensure your well-being and want you to participate in the team” so it was like talking to a brick wall. I couldn’t see the relationship getting better so I think I got out on time. Oh also when you google their name it tries to add the word scam after the name of the business ... oh well