State of the Market

[BoggyMcCBoggyFace]

If its any help, been doing nothing but contracting for the last 25 years, and the market looks fairly bouyant at the moment - its the recruitment process that is borked. Gather all the job feeds you can, and apply for everything that you can honestly lay claim to being able to do. Then set asside 1 hour each morning from 9am, and try to phone the bastards. Any you can't get through to, put in the black-hole pile, and start to build up a rapport with the ones you do reach. It will take a while and its a learning journey every time, but I find I do start to get my eye in to where the opportunities and connections are.

Anyone that approaches you on LI is probably just going to waste your time. If you can't get them on a phone call and suss them out, just leave it.

Thanks yeah I need to up my game, they used to come looking for me now I'm chasing them, I suppose so many candidates they can be picky. I was pretty positive first 2 months after redundancy, keen doing training, new techs etc. LinkedIn algorithms doesn't help much obviously picked up im looking etc now pretty much 75% of my LinkedIn feed is post about being out of work for x months / years and making hundreds of job applications etc, not helping me mentally tbh. Thought my permy gig see me through till retirement, oh well, need to stay positive. Starting to wonder if the end of me working in IT but go no idea what else to do.

[GmartSuy]

I've a friend who is permanent for a UK major consultancy. Said consultancy has been taken over by an international one but the rate cards of the international consultants is much lower than the UK bods.

Turns out after 10 weeks on the bench he is on what amounts to be a zero hour contract despite lengthy service to the company.

It does not sound right to me, but another example that contracting is no more secure than permanent employment in the consultancy world.

You mean permanent is no more secure? I beg to differ, a few anecdotes of permies being made redundant doesn't suddenly mean it's the same level of security as contracting. One is intrinsically insecure, the other is designed to be longer term even if it doesn't always work that way.

[willendure]

Thanks yeah I need to up my game, they used to come looking for me now I'm chasing them, I suppose so many candidates they can be picky.

Yes, I remember those days too, we all had burner phones switched off when we were not looking, because you would get so many calls every day it was annoying. We used to be special, holding a set of valuable and in demand skills that were hard to find, so they chased us. (Now they only chase Billy!)

A combination of remote working, AI, platforms that make it too easy to apply, and so on means that every job ad they put out gets hundreds of applicants all with CVs that closely match the JD. They can't read them all so the job gets handed over to AI to shortlist, and the new generation of agents can't tell the different between a good candidate and a bad one anyway. They don't answer their phones or even give out their number, because if they did they would just spend all day getting phoned by candidates. And millenials and zoomers hate the idea of speaking to strangers on the phone anyway - if it can't be done on the internet, they don't do it. I think that is how the market has structurally changed.

An example of that - I worked for a company looking for a developer with skills in a niche language. They put out an ad on LI, got 300 applicants, and not a single one of them had any experience in the niche language that was core to the JD and an absolute essential! I was able to find them 5 good candidates by posting their ad on the right forum where those devs can be found.

Our skills and our experience is still valuable, its just harder to differentiate ourselves, and we need to be doing the chasing.

[sadkingbilly]

We used to be special, holding a set of valuable and in demand skills that were hard to find, so they chased us. (Now they only chase Billy!)

[SchumiStars]

This is the way it is. Across the market.

It does seem the once in demand skills are no longer in demand Unfortuntly that is the stark reality of it all. And whilst we shake our fists at the sky, the world is moving on.

I agree, it's shocking how its turned overnight but we've had a good run and now need to adapt to the times. My family all had video shops on their day, then computer shops and all of those markets have gone, so why not our market!?!

There is new money in being social influencers, offering courses etc. Perhaps that is route to go down ? Who knows;

[Fraidycat]

According to Indeed, job postings for software developers compared to Feb 2020 (so just before the Pandemic) are down down 38% in the UK

And Job posting for all types of jobs in the UK since then are down 27%

So software developers are down an extra 11% compared to base line uk job postings.

I would say it's a general new job postings down turn across many countries, not just the UK, since they jacked up interest rates in 2022. The IT sector being more cyclical and does worse during down turns is acting as expected.






Software developer job postings on Indeed in France and Germany are down even more than the UK (down around 50%)

US and Candada are down less than UK at -27%.

Australia, job postings for Developers are up +5% compared pre pandemic. But still well down on 2022 levels.


The current jobs market just cant compete with the jobs market when there was almost 0% interest rates, that jobs market and economy was just too strong when interest rates were that low.



You can find the charts for these other countries here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/categories/33509

[SchumiStars]

According to Indeed, job postings for software developers compared to Feb 2020 (so just before the Pandemic) are down down 38% in the UK

And Job posting for all types of jobs in the UK since then are down 27%

So software developers are down an extra 11% compared to base line uk job postings.

I would say it's a general new job postings down turn across many countries, not just the UK, since they jacked up interest rates in 2022. The IT sector being more cyclical and does worse during down turns is acting as expected.






Software developer job postings on Indeed in France and Germany are down even more than the UK (down around 50%)

US and Candada are down less than UK at -27%.

Australia, job postings for Developers are up +5% compared pre pandemic. But still well down on 2022 levels.


The current jobs market just cant compete with the jobs market when there was almost 0% interest rates, that jobs market and economy was just too strong when interest rates were that low.



You can find the charts for these other countries here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/categories/33509

Thanks for the graphs. Confirms what we all know.

What's really interesting is that companies are continuing to grow and make money, which shows that they don't need us!😀

Going forwards, this thread will continue. Why would they need to hire contractors when they can hire permies and train them at a cheaper rate working on tactical plans for the future.

Interest rates are higher so it now costs money to try something. Were before they could take a punt and on a new tech or new idea and enterprises could offset that against future growth plans.

I am just going to say this market decline will affect all of us, even the super contractors who only work outside roles, have a client list longer than their arm and a skill set noone else learn and is unique to them.

UKC is closing up and we all need to find new revenue streans. This is not a blip, this is the current and long term state of the market.

[sadkingbilly]

I am just going to say this market decline will affect all of us, even the super contractors who only work outside roles, have a client list longer than their arm and a skill set noone else learn and is unique to them.

UKC is closing up and we all need to find new revenue streans. This is not a blip, this is the current and long term state of the market.

Oh, right. best just give up then, eh??
<walks off into the sunset>

[SchumiStars]

Oh, right. best just give up then, eh??

😁

If you are like me, with no skills other than being a developer then we have to keep going with the current state of the market. I just don't think it will ever recover to previous levels that we all saw and enjoyed.

[Croesus]

I am just going to say this market decline will affect all of us, even the super contractors who only work outside roles, have a client list longer than their arm and a skill set noone else learn and is unique to them.

I have a long list of clients with whom I have secured repeat business over the years.

Trouble is, one or two of them (e.g. Honda) no longer operate in the UK and most of the rest no longer hire contractors - everything is sourced through the big consultancies.

None of that is news to anyone, I'm sure and the writing has been on the wall for years.

One thing that has left me thinking is Mr. Burnham's announcement about awarding govt contracts only to UK businesses.

Now, I've worked on a few govt contracts - Home Office and MOD - and the teams were top heavy with people onshored through Tata et al. This was 8-10 years ago and I wouldn't mind betting it's pretty much a closed shop nowadays - especially the HO.

Does this mean, then, that they won't be able to offer contracts to overseas outfits/consultancies of any kind and is this potetentially good news?

Or am I being naive and it's actually all smoke and mirrors with these overseas outfits being classified as UK based by virtue of having a registered office over here?

Either way, I'm guessing it'll be small beer as far as we're concerned.