Most people I work with openly talk about BREXIT. It seems 99% of them didn't vote for it. This is a major investment bank with, assuming meritocracy is operating as expected, very high earners and a multitude of intelligent individuals.
But: individuals sheltered from the true reasons for brexit. It seems the people who voted remain seem to agree many areas of the UK, in each country, were disadvantaged and left behind somewhat by globalisation. They still have smartphones, new job opportunities and styles of working - so they were not quite as left behind as is made out. If I go and live in rural Scotland, it's a lifestyle choice. For someone growing up in Fort William, they can't truly expect all the social and job opportunities available in cities to head towards them.
Any lack of investment in a village or town that seems blamed on the EU is, in actuality, the fault of our own UK government policy over the decades. This is exactly the part I do not understand the rationale for. It is assumed immigration is seen as an issue, it is assumed people wanted to (quote) "give the establishment a kicking". An advisory referendum results in THIS?
What is the vision that the leavers see? We don't need another leaver-bashing thread. I want to help myself and other remainers understand what the 2025 vision is. I am no EU-phile, but the easy access to trade deals that have improved living standards for 99% of the UK over the past 20, 30, 40 years is obvious to see the benefit of. I pay a high membership fee to my squash club, precisely because the benefits I get I deem worth more than the fee.
The only groups I can see benefiting from the Leave EU mantra are corporations and large conglomerates, who will have an easier time dictating policy and expanding any monopoly they are edging towards. Having spoken to James Dyson not so long ago, I can see exactly what his gameplan is. It isn't to benefit the poor of the UK, that's for sure. "Business is business."
Owlhoot, Bean, Original PM, et al; can you provide some bulletpoints of what is the vision? Specifics. Trade deals with which specific countries, for example. If you are pro-corporation and wish them to guide policy it is absolutely ok to be specify that as an aim. I've worked in many countries and certainly see a more content nation that does not embrace that ethos, but each to their own opinion. The main criticism of the leavers is a lack of cohesive vision and cohesive plan. Remain was, by definition, pushing for gradual influence and change using the soft touch strategy; so it's safe to say most Remainers understood what vision they were pursuing.
I've mentioned before that most medium size business owners I know are wondering how to serve the UK market but move their core HQ to other EU countries. Business is business. Many families are worried about stagnation, their children losing out on the career ladder and job opportunities of the future based elsewhere. I do not believe there is such a gulf that leavers possess some magic superpower that has this concrete plan that the remainers simply cannot see.
When 99.9% of researchers, scientists and intelligent individuals say climate change exists, I see that for what it is: the fact, until volume of evidence shows otherwise. There are so many of these neutral individuals against leaving the EU, from economists to businesses to university professors, it does make one question the validity of the exercise.
Thanks for any input.
For me, the main issues that I cannot see a resolution to, without accepting negative growth (contraction) and long term recession and simple acceptance of a less developed progression in society are:
But: individuals sheltered from the true reasons for brexit. It seems the people who voted remain seem to agree many areas of the UK, in each country, were disadvantaged and left behind somewhat by globalisation. They still have smartphones, new job opportunities and styles of working - so they were not quite as left behind as is made out. If I go and live in rural Scotland, it's a lifestyle choice. For someone growing up in Fort William, they can't truly expect all the social and job opportunities available in cities to head towards them.
Any lack of investment in a village or town that seems blamed on the EU is, in actuality, the fault of our own UK government policy over the decades. This is exactly the part I do not understand the rationale for. It is assumed immigration is seen as an issue, it is assumed people wanted to (quote) "give the establishment a kicking". An advisory referendum results in THIS?
What is the vision that the leavers see? We don't need another leaver-bashing thread. I want to help myself and other remainers understand what the 2025 vision is. I am no EU-phile, but the easy access to trade deals that have improved living standards for 99% of the UK over the past 20, 30, 40 years is obvious to see the benefit of. I pay a high membership fee to my squash club, precisely because the benefits I get I deem worth more than the fee.
The only groups I can see benefiting from the Leave EU mantra are corporations and large conglomerates, who will have an easier time dictating policy and expanding any monopoly they are edging towards. Having spoken to James Dyson not so long ago, I can see exactly what his gameplan is. It isn't to benefit the poor of the UK, that's for sure. "Business is business."
Owlhoot, Bean, Original PM, et al; can you provide some bulletpoints of what is the vision? Specifics. Trade deals with which specific countries, for example. If you are pro-corporation and wish them to guide policy it is absolutely ok to be specify that as an aim. I've worked in many countries and certainly see a more content nation that does not embrace that ethos, but each to their own opinion. The main criticism of the leavers is a lack of cohesive vision and cohesive plan. Remain was, by definition, pushing for gradual influence and change using the soft touch strategy; so it's safe to say most Remainers understood what vision they were pursuing.
I've mentioned before that most medium size business owners I know are wondering how to serve the UK market but move their core HQ to other EU countries. Business is business. Many families are worried about stagnation, their children losing out on the career ladder and job opportunities of the future based elsewhere. I do not believe there is such a gulf that leavers possess some magic superpower that has this concrete plan that the remainers simply cannot see.
When 99.9% of researchers, scientists and intelligent individuals say climate change exists, I see that for what it is: the fact, until volume of evidence shows otherwise. There are so many of these neutral individuals against leaving the EU, from economists to businesses to university professors, it does make one question the validity of the exercise.
Thanks for any input.
For me, the main issues that I cannot see a resolution to, without accepting negative growth (contraction) and long term recession and simple acceptance of a less developed progression in society are:
- No decent trade deals with non-EU countries; they are unlikely to be prioritised by those countries
- Non-EU immigration will increase, as these are always negotiated upwards in trade deals - we need them more than they need us for the foreseeable
- Universities are finding competition conditions internationally very difficult right now. Lesser growth is likely to lead to mediocrity within our infamous universities
- Leave = far right growing due to resentment from, for example, the young voters who - sizeable majority - voted to remain; but resentment may be fed by a populist candidate (again)
- 'Hard BREXIT' seeming likely, almost purposefully it seems, meaning a soured relationship with our geographically best trading partner
- Stagnation in almost all business sectors, due to impact of devalued currency long-term, high personal debt ratio, extended P/E ratio of UK companies, etc
- Sour grapes from many highly skilled professionals who are able to be mobile and head abroad (perhaps temporarily) until the landscape is clearer 5/10 years down the line
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