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Brexit - The Vision

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    #21
    Originally posted by Bean View Post
    contractorinatractor was originally asking about a vision for the future, which is not necessarily the same as the reasons to vote to leave.

    Many people wanted out for relatively non-tangible reasons (which have traditionally been dismissed as unimportant by remainers with a sole focus on money), such as;

    Supremacy of UK courts,
    Supremacy of UK law, (whilst still being in a common market, not a supra-national political union),
    100% control (not reduction or stopping) of all immigration,
    etc.

    You've seen lists of things from others in the past I'm sure - but the 3 examples above cannot be done inside the EU, as it currently stands.
    The UK Courts already have supremacy.

    I think you are referring to some EU directives about trade.

    The UK already has full control on immigration but has chosen not to enforce it.
    "A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices," George Orwell

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      #22
      Originally posted by Bean View Post
      • Trade deals with BRIC, commonwealth countries & Africa - are what I'd hope we'd be seeking out, if we are unable to reach a deal with the EU.
      In most cases these countries are already part of a bloc, and mainly interested in striking trade deals with other blocs. ECOWAS (the West African Union) include many of the African countries we are interested in, including Nigeria. It is modelled after the EU and has two common currencies, both pegged to the euro (will be replaced by a single common currency later, the ECO). They are currently negotiating a quite comprehensive trade deal with the EU that we will be left out of.

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        #23
        Originally posted by unixman View Post
        I voted "leave" because I thought that the EU leadership (ie. the comission and president) should be elected directly by the people. Every other state in the free world elects its leaders in this way, and the EU, a putative state, should do the same. In essence, the led must always be able to dismiss their leaders.
        The Council and the Parliament provides the leadership. The Commission is more akin to Whitehall - the civil service. We don't elect the civil service in the UK. We didn't get to vote for Sir John Heywood (the head of the civil service) either.

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          #24
          Originally posted by m0n1k3r View Post
          The Council and the Parliament provides the leadership. The Commission is more akin to Whitehall - the civil service. We don't elect the civil service in the UK. We didn't get to vote for Sir John Heywood (the head of the civil service) either.

          This point about how the EU works was explained multiple times before the vote but a few Brexit voters on here absolutely refused to understand the political system the EU uses doesn't mirror that of the UK.

          They just think president and presume wrongly that person makes all the decisions. For example the Presidents of France and Eire are elected heads of state. However the president of France has only two main things to look after - foreign policy and defence - while the president of Eire's role is more like our Queen's. The people who do all the work are the elected PMs.
          "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

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            #25
            Originally posted by contractorinatractor View Post
            Owlhoot, Bean, Original PM
            Don't I get a say?

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              #26
              Originally posted by meridian View Post
              I understand the OP, it just sounded like your vision for the future was the same as one we could have outside Brexit, except less trade.

              I'm sure you already know, but no national court or law has 100% supremacy. Except perhaps North Korea, where they give two fingers to any other international courts. So I guess the real question is where you're prepared to draw the line, and that's okay; I think it's clear that the line is "outside the EU, but will accept all other normal international obligations".

              Both Brexit responses have missed your vision on trade, though. Do you have a vision on where you would see the future with the EU, and how much (if any) you're prepared for the country to pay for it?

              Oh, and Northern Ireland.
              It's probably the easiest way to describe the following, in a concise manner;
              "When making decisions, the UKSC must give effect to the rights contained in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) as contained in the Human Rights Act 1998.

              The UKSC must also give effect to directly applicable European Union law, and interpret domestic law consistently with European Union law, so far as is possible."


              Accept your point regarding International courts, such as the ICC - however, it's more aimed at domestic law interpretations, as above.



              •Trade deals with BRIC, commonwealth countries & Africa - are what I'd hope we'd be seeking out, if we are unable to reach a deal with the EU.

              I'm not prepared to pay just to have the ability to trade. Would you pay just to enter a supermarket? Will Canada be paying anything for CETA? Would the USA if TTIP had gone through?
              Set commons standards we have to meet, to sell in your market? Fine, but it seems strange that there is a fee, to trade, for the UK only it seems.



              NI and the CTA pre-dates the EU. The GFA is clear and should be respected, by both the UK and the EU.
              The UK gov, NI & Eire have all said publicly they want that.
              CTA notwithstanding, it is possible to 'control' immigration, as it is an island.
              Nobody wants a border, so this should be a moot point right?


              Customs border is trickier and this is why there are negotiations taking place, otherwise it would have just been handshakes all round after handing in Art.50.
              Something needs to give, but who and what are the questions that everyone thinks they know the answer to.


              I see your point, but inside the CU - that's not 'leaving', so shouldn't happen.


              Anyway, as I've said before, whatever 'vision' we voters may have had (individually or collectively) is all moot, as we are not in any meaningful position to demand or enforce the ideas through - so we all get to wait and see.
              Originally posted by Old Greg
              I admit I'm just a lazy, lying cretinous hypocrite and must be going deaf
              ♕Keep calm & carry on♕

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