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Tory Brexit No Deal DOOM™: budget raid on freelancers!

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  • Jog On
    replied
    Quoting from the original article in the other thread:

    The Treasury is targeting IT contractors, consultants and other freelancers who are paid through “personal service companies”. Currently, it is up to the workers to pay the correct personal tax and national insurance contributions. HM Revenue & Customs believes that most of them do not comply in full.
    It's the same old language again - and I'll ask again what exactly - as defined by law - are 'the correct personal tax and national insurance contributions'? It's a bit like expenses isn't it where we get told things like "Try not to go over x amount otherwise it could be classed as entertainment"

    No - what are the exact rules in black and white as defined in law? I won't accept shaming or wooly language around their interpretations of shoulds and shouldn'ts. BUt they won't because this is how they selectively decide who's in the club and who isn't. Oh and this as well:

    But it would also hand a cash boost to Hammond, who is scrambling to fund public sector pay rises and to increase spending on the NHS and social care.
    So he wants me to take on the risk and admin of providing flexible skills with no HR overhead for end client and take away what makes it worth doing - just to score points in an attempt to keep his job and try and win the next election? Nice play of the NHS/social care card as well. Spare a thought for the war industry shareholders with billions in offshore havens as well - those super yachts don't pay for themselves you know.

    So we'll form micro consultancies and provide services for specific bits of work - or go perm or move abroad or go plan B. Maybe we'll get publicly shamed in the media soon...

    Leave a comment:


  • Hobosapien
    replied
    Originally posted by washed up contractor View Post
    6 of those bullet points are available to contractors via their own limited company. The fact you decide to fore go them from your limited co is a personal choice.

    You have employment rights with your limited co. Why should the client company give you paid holiday, sick pay, pension scheme, redundancy terms or training?

    That's the argument for maintaining enough of a tax gap between permie and contractor so the Ltd can pay those benefits and the contractor doesn't lose out in take home pay.

    So to maintain that gap, contractors need to get increased rates to make it worthwhile not going permie from a pay perspective (ignoring the other benefits of not being a permie such as performance reviews and other office bollox), like some/many have been able to do recently from the public sector.

    With the divi tax and other restrictions on Ltd based contractors caught by IR35 it then becomes a choice between Ltd covering those benefits or going via brolly that offers those benefits. The bottom line being the client has a regular payment to make for a resource, whether it be direct contractor, contractor via agency, contractor via agency/brolly, or permie. They all cost an amount and sometimes the flexibility of not having permies twiddling their thumbs week in week out between projects is worth the short term increase in costs, which is why contracting has been popular with clients and rewarding for contractors for so long.

    The government only do what they are told by those funding their parties or offering them opportunities after their stint as an MP in parliament, so the future of contracting depends on the goals of those with real power over the government, and I'm not talking about those at AIPSE.

    Leave a comment:


  • BR14
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
    But that's the entire point.

    A chancellor with intelligence would work out how to screw us without annoying big business, ensuring p*ssed off people like me wouldn't moan to our Tory MPs and then take the chance to sign on at every opportunity.
    HEAR! HEAR!

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by AtW View Post


    It's already close to income tax levels (when corp tax is factored in).
    But that's the entire point.

    A chancellor with intelligence would work out how to screw us without annoying big business, ensuring p*ssed off people like me wouldn't moan to our Tory MPs and then take the chance to sign on at every opportunity.

    Leave a comment:


  • washed up contractor
    replied
    Originally posted by tomtomagain View Post
    Because the contractor :
    • Has no employment rights
    • Gets no paid holiday
    • Gets no sick pay
    • Gets no company pension
    • Gets no redundancy
    • Is a short-term, skilled-employee and therefore commands a premium
    • Gets no training
    • Expects no career progression


    Those are my arguments against.
    6 of those bullet points are available to contractors via their own limited company. The fact you decide to fore go them from your limited co is a personal choice.

    You have employment rights with your limited co. Why should the client company give you paid holiday, sick pay, pension scheme, redundancy terms or training?

    Leave a comment:


  • AtW
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
    Spreadsheet Phil needs to put up dividend tax.


    It's already close to income tax levels (when corp tax is factored in).

    Leave a comment:


  • tomtomagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Waldorf View Post

    Clearly there is also an argument for taxes to be levelled out, why is a contractor paying less tax than a employed colleague? This is his it would be sold and it’s hard to argue against.

    Because the contractor :
    • Has no employment rights
    • Gets no paid holiday
    • Gets no sick pay
    • Gets no company pension
    • Gets no redundancy
    • Is a short-term, skilled-employee and therefore commands a premium
    • Gets no training
    • Expects no career progression


    Those are my arguments against.

    Leave a comment:


  • xoggoth
    replied
    Fair enough provided of course contractors get paid holidays, sick pay, access to HR resources, sports club membership, pensions & PAYE all done for them, stop having to fill in F* tax returns etc. etc. etc. Beats me why politicians are so ignorant of the facts.

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by Mordac View Post
    Not as significant or advantageous as they used to be...
    Spreadsheet Phil needs to put up dividend tax.

    While it will p*ss of contractors it won't p*ss of big business.

    Other countries e.g. Germany have worked out how to extract money from contractors without p*ssing of big business.

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by mattfx View Post
    Yes, we enjoy very significant tax advantages. We also spend months on the bench, have stress at the end of every single gig not knowing if we will have another to go on to, are put through far more rigorous interview processes and generally speaking work harder. I really do not see why the chancellor wishes to punish a legitimate group of hard working individuals.
    I guess I must just get used to signing on after every contract.

    And I will to prove a fecking point after whining to my Tory MP.

    If I'm sick between contracts due to primary care being completely useless then I will just go into the dole offices and collapse at least I will then have a legit reason for being in A&E.

    Leave a comment:

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