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Tory Brexit No Deal DOOM™: budget raid on freelancers!

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    #11
    Originally posted by Waldorf View Post

    Clearly there is also an argument for taxes to be levelled out, why is a contractor paying less tax than a employed colleague? This is his it would be sold and it’s hard to argue against.

    Because the contractor :
    • Has no employment rights
    • Gets no paid holiday
    • Gets no sick pay
    • Gets no company pension
    • Gets no redundancy
    • Is a short-term, skilled-employee and therefore commands a premium
    • Gets no training
    • Expects no career progression


    Those are my arguments against.

    Comment


      #12
      Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
      Spreadsheet Phil needs to put up dividend tax.


      It's already close to income tax levels (when corp tax is factored in).

      Comment


        #13
        Originally posted by tomtomagain View Post
        Because the contractor :
        • Has no employment rights
        • Gets no paid holiday
        • Gets no sick pay
        • Gets no company pension
        • Gets no redundancy
        • Is a short-term, skilled-employee and therefore commands a premium
        • Gets no training
        • Expects no career progression


        Those are my arguments against.
        6 of those bullet points are available to contractors via their own limited company. The fact you decide to fore go them from your limited co is a personal choice.

        You have employment rights with your limited co. Why should the client company give you paid holiday, sick pay, pension scheme, redundancy terms or training?

        Comment


          #14
          Originally posted by AtW View Post


          It's already close to income tax levels (when corp tax is factored in).
          But that's the entire point.

          A chancellor with intelligence would work out how to screw us without annoying big business, ensuring p*ssed off people like me wouldn't moan to our Tory MPs and then take the chance to sign on at every opportunity.
          "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

          Comment


            #15
            Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
            But that's the entire point.

            A chancellor with intelligence would work out how to screw us without annoying big business, ensuring p*ssed off people like me wouldn't moan to our Tory MPs and then take the chance to sign on at every opportunity.
            HEAR! HEAR!
            Entropy is NOT what it used to be.
            Inertia, however........................

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              #16
              Originally posted by washed up contractor View Post
              6 of those bullet points are available to contractors via their own limited company. The fact you decide to fore go them from your limited co is a personal choice.

              You have employment rights with your limited co. Why should the client company give you paid holiday, sick pay, pension scheme, redundancy terms or training?

              That's the argument for maintaining enough of a tax gap between permie and contractor so the Ltd can pay those benefits and the contractor doesn't lose out in take home pay.

              So to maintain that gap, contractors need to get increased rates to make it worthwhile not going permie from a pay perspective (ignoring the other benefits of not being a permie such as performance reviews and other office bollox), like some/many have been able to do recently from the public sector.

              With the divi tax and other restrictions on Ltd based contractors caught by IR35 it then becomes a choice between Ltd covering those benefits or going via brolly that offers those benefits. The bottom line being the client has a regular payment to make for a resource, whether it be direct contractor, contractor via agency, contractor via agency/brolly, or permie. They all cost an amount and sometimes the flexibility of not having permies twiddling their thumbs week in week out between projects is worth the short term increase in costs, which is why contracting has been popular with clients and rewarding for contractors for so long.

              The government only do what they are told by those funding their parties or offering them opportunities after their stint as an MP in parliament, so the future of contracting depends on the goals of those with real power over the government, and I'm not talking about those at AIPSE.
              Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

              Comment


                #17
                Quoting from the original article in the other thread:

                The Treasury is targeting IT contractors, consultants and other freelancers who are paid through “personal service companies”. Currently, it is up to the workers to pay the correct personal tax and national insurance contributions. HM Revenue & Customs believes that most of them do not comply in full.
                It's the same old language again - and I'll ask again what exactly - as defined by law - are 'the correct personal tax and national insurance contributions'? It's a bit like expenses isn't it where we get told things like "Try not to go over x amount otherwise it could be classed as entertainment"

                No - what are the exact rules in black and white as defined in law? I won't accept shaming or wooly language around their interpretations of shoulds and shouldn'ts. BUt they won't because this is how they selectively decide who's in the club and who isn't. Oh and this as well:

                But it would also hand a cash boost to Hammond, who is scrambling to fund public sector pay rises and to increase spending on the NHS and social care.
                So he wants me to take on the risk and admin of providing flexible skills with no HR overhead for end client and take away what makes it worth doing - just to score points in an attempt to keep his job and try and win the next election? Nice play of the NHS/social care card as well. Spare a thought for the war industry shareholders with billions in offshore havens as well - those super yachts don't pay for themselves you know.

                So we'll form micro consultancies and provide services for specific bits of work - or go perm or move abroad or go plan B. Maybe we'll get publicly shamed in the media soon...
                Whatever...

                Comment


                  #18
                  Originally posted by Jog On View Post
                  Quoting from the original article in the other thread:



                  It's the same old language again - and I'll ask again what exactly - as defined by law - are 'the correct personal tax and national insurance contributions'? It's a bit like expenses isn't it where we get told things like "Try not to go over x amount otherwise it could be classed as entertainment"

                  No - what are the exact rules in black and white as defined in law? I won't accept shaming or wooly language around their interpretations of shoulds and shouldn'ts. BUt they won't because this is how they selectively decide who's in the club and who isn't. Oh and this as well:



                  So he wants me to take on the risk and admin of providing flexible skills with no HR overhead for end client and take away what makes it worth doing - just to score points in an attempt to keep his job and try and win the next election? Nice play of the NHS/social care card as well. Spare a thought for the war industry shareholders with billions in offshore havens as well - those super yachts don't pay for themselves you know.

                  So we'll form micro consultancies and provide services for specific bits of work - or go perm or move abroad or go plan B. Maybe we'll get publicly shamed in the media soon...
                  He's a fool.

                  Has he been talking to Brown?
                  "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Oh hello HMRC Maybe you should get your Treasury friends on here.
                    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

                    Comment


                      #20
                      this countries tax laws, sheesh

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