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HMRC Investigation Protection

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    #31
    Like I said, I don't care what HMRC in their infinite wisdom consider to be a pointer, all the above has been resolved in case law. For example, the posession of a reasonably unfettered RoS has been cited several times as a pointer - albeit only a moderate one - to being outside IR35 on the basis an employee can't possibly have such a thing. The only time it went wrong was Dragonfly, where it had been added after the event and in flat contravention of the real situation and was rightly set aside. However, in that case, the worker was a specific expert that the client wanted to hang on to, which isn't the case at the other end of the worker spectrum.

    There are a myriad other indicators you can use to examine the totality of the arrangement - for example, I'm not allowed to access the client's intranet and have a flagged email address - but as of now the usual three rules are what decides the outcome. Most contactors should be able to find room for manouevre within them.

    And finally, HMRC are claiming that the average take from a successful IR35 case (not that they have a statistically valid sample) is around £27k. I can't see too many service desk workers offering that kind of a target...
    Blog? What blog...?

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      #32
      Originally posted by malvolio View Post
      The only time it went wrong was Dragonfly
      So, if Dragonfly had been a member of the PCG, they could have just forgotten about IR35?
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        #33
        Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post
        So, if Dragonfly had been a member of the PCG, they could have just forgotten about IR35?
        If he'd been a member he probably wouldn't have got to court.
        Blog? What blog...?

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          #34
          Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post
          It's not a case of dragging it out, it's about newbies understanding IR35 and making an informed decision - your position on the subject seems to be similar to that of an Emu

          So which points do you disagree on and why?
          Lisa,

          and your position is biased as well to beat your IR35 drum for your own agenda.

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            #35
            Originally posted by malvolio View Post
            If he'd been a member he probably wouldn't have got to court.
            And wouldn't have had to part with any cash?????
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              #36
              Originally posted by prozak View Post
              Lisa,

              and your position is biased as well to beat your IR35 drum for your own agenda.
              Prozak,

              Yes my position is probably biased but no more so than Mal's but my point originally was that I thought it was irresponsible to advise people to 'ignore IR35' on a public forum and I stand by that
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                #37
                Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post
                And wouldn't have had to part with any cash?????
                I don't know, actually. The terms of any resultant settlement are confidential. but the point here is that he failed each of the three tests in reality, despite amending his contract to avoid IR35 so any taxes were probably correctly owed. That is the only case law value of Dragonfly.

                As for
                I thought it was irresponsible to advise people to 'ignore IR35'
                that's not what I said (or meant to say, on re-reading it). I said (oops - meant to say) you can afford to ignore IR35 if you understand the rules and align to them. And if, as a PCG member, you do get caught up in an investigation, the expert representation will almost certainly mean it goes nowhere.
                Blog? What blog...?

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post
                  Prozak,

                  Yes my position is probably biased but no more so than Mal's but my point originally was that I thought it was irresponsible to advise people to 'ignore IR35' on a public forum and I stand by that
                  I never said more or less.

                  Just biased.

                  As is mine as I believe it is easy for most to avoid.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by prozak View Post
                    I never said more or less.

                    Just biased.

                    As is mine as I believe it is easy for most to avoid.
                    I think everyone's position on most subjects is biased 1. because we all want things to work for and not against us and 2. none of us likes being wrong
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                      #40
                      Originally posted by malvolio View Post
                      I don't know, actually. The terms of any resultant settlement are confidential. but the point here is that he failed each of the three tests in reality, despite amending his contract to avoid IR35 so any taxes were probably correctly owed. That is the only case law value of Dragonfly.
                      In which case, joining the PCG and following their advice would surely have been "don't take the contract, or pay up".

                      Which is hardly the same as "ignoring IR35"
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