Reverse engineering a schema - any ethical or legal imlications?

[RichardCranium]

This project sounds extremely iffy to me. Personally I wouldn't touch it without the help of Max Clifford and a top notch legal team. Nobody has ever done a piece of data migration before which required knowledge of the schema. Best to avoid.

Whoever gets the gig in the end will be happy enough.

[rd409]

This is pretty elementary. I have helped many clients migrate their data from SAP, Dynamics and salesforce. Put in some custom built CRMs and the picture grows in confusion. Each of the system has been configured for the client, and to migrate the data and business logic, I would need to get into the configuration management console provided by FromCo, and figure out what needs to be done in the ToCo. Technically this can be termed as reverse engineering, but this is a common expected methodology used by almost all professionals who overlook Data migration or any other kind of Technical Changes. Many companies look out for professionals who have already done something like this say for example who has migrated a client from Dynamics to SAP. This will make the project run smoothly and faster than someone trying for the first time.

The point here is "Reverse Engineering" is not un-ethical or illegal. It is how you approach it makes the difference. If while working at the FromCo previously, you have left a backdoor open for future migration, and you use that now, it is illegal. But otherwise, it should be okay.

[Clever Hans]

This is pretty elementary. I have helped many clients migrate their data from SAP, Dynamics and salesforce. Put in some custom built CRMs and the picture grows in confusion. Each of the system has been configured for the client, and to migrate the data and business logic, I would need to get into the configuration management console provided by FromCo, and figure out what needs to be done in the ToCo. Technically this can be termed as reverse engineering, but this is a common expected methodology used by almost all professionals who overlook Data migration or any other kind of Technical Changes. Many companies look out for professionals who have already done something like this say for example who has migrated a client from Dynamics to SAP. This will make the project run smoothly and faster than someone trying for the first time.

The point here is "Reverse Engineering" is not un-ethical or illegal. It is how you approach it makes the difference. If while working at the FromCo previously, you have left a backdoor open for future migration, and you use that now, it is illegal. But otherwise, it should be okay.

Thanks. I should point out, I have done data migration before, but only on internally-created systems, not between competing products I don't 'own'. I understand the technical elementariness of it, I just wanted clarity on the legal/ethical side.

[Clever Hans]

Ok, well I guess the question is answered:

Ways forward for peace of mind include getting a lawyer to look over the contract, check the book linked, speak to FromCo, use the suggested information resources I may have access to. Excellent suggestions.

Apparently unneeded though, because it is standard practice in software houses.

This project sounds extremely iffy to me. Personally I wouldn't touch it without the help of Max Clifford and a top notch legal team. Nobody has ever done a piece of data migration before which required knowledge of the schema. Best to avoid.

Connecting up to the application in a way not intended by FromCo when it deployed it to the client, under conditions of secrecy and extracting the blueprint for a major part of it to help produce a competing product is not reverse engineering, its not illegal, and its not unethical.

There you go.

[phileds]

They argue the client owns the data, and they've been through it all with lawyers.

Excellent! Then they'll obviously be more than happy to give you a copy of said legal opinion.

Though why they've sought a legal opinion for what sounds like a straightforward transfer of a client's data from one system to another is, er, "interesting".

[MarillionFan]

Excellent! Then they'll obviously be more than happy to give you a copy of said legal opinion.

Though why they've sought a legal opinion for what sounds like a straightforward transfer of a client's data from one system to another is, er, "interesting".

Seems a little like David Blunkett leading Ray Charles to me.

[SueEllen]

Excellent! Then they'll obviously be more than happy to give you a copy of said legal opinion.

Though why they've sought a legal opinion for what sounds like a straightforward transfer of a client's data from one system to another is, er, "interesting".

Depends on the company and their management.

I know of relatively small companies that have their own in-house solicitor and larger ones that don't.

Though it doesn't mean their solicitor specialises in Intellectual Property............

[Wanderer]

Excellent! Then they'll obviously be more than happy to give you a copy of said legal opinion.

The way I see it is that the client has the contract with the software supplier and if anyone is going to get in trouble then it's going to be the client.

If it comes to legal action then it's going to be a civil matter rather than a criminal one, probably claiming breach of software license conditions and that's between the supplier of the software and the licensee.

As a contractor working for the client, I would not be party to the licensing agreement between the client and the supplier and I couldn't be reasonably expected to review it either. If for no other reason, it's none of my business.

If the client have taken legal advice and are happy with it then I'd be good to go.

[krytonsheep]

This is a standard piece of data migration/modelling.

I'd aggree, it's just migration. Without fully knowing the details, I would guess that the Ruby on Rails gem yaml_db would do what you need.

[SueEllen]

The way I see it is that the client has the contract with the software supplier and if anyone is going to get in trouble then it's going to be the client.

<snip>

If it comes to legal action then it's going to be a civil matter rather than a criminal one, probably claiming breach of software license conditions and that's between the supplier of the software and the licensee.

I've actually been warned that there are cases that they can come after you as well as the client.

Even if the supplier has no case with you it won't stop them trying to tie you up in their case particularly if the supplier has bigger pockets.

Hence you get a clause or two in your contract ensuring the client indemnifies you.

This obviously won't work if you know you are doing something blatantly illegal.