Contracting in Belgium - A Short Guide to Tax and Social Security

[Sergeant Murphys Cosh]

If you believe everything you see and hear, that is...

For what remotely sane purpose would the UK media wish to misportray their own country as a drug-ridden, knife-wielding, gun-toating, rapist-laden of a country, to not only their own people, but to the rest of the world too?

The UK has bad areas, but you can avoid living in them.

You can avoid living in the bad areas of any country.

I used to live in Uccle, which is supposed to be a family-oriented leafy suburb. Only problem is that the Muzz ghetto of Forest is just a few blocks away.

Hey, look on the bright side. You don't have very far to go to find a hooker !

Same in Etterbeek. In Brussels you have a good area and, a few streets apart, you have the ghetto.

I can't believe you think Brussels is the only place designed that way.

If all the 'ghettos' were in one place, the situation would only get worse. By mixing the riff-raff with the civilized, the place averages out. If all the riff-raff lived in one area, and all the civilized in another, you create a divided society; which is err, bad.

In any case, central London is safe. The center of Brussels is not.

I have never in all my life read so much bull-tulip as that last sentence. Brussels is one of the safest places I've ever been to. Britain is a tulip-hole. London is tulip-hole capital. Get a grip man!

Britain is the worst country in the entire 'civilized' world. It has NOTHING to offer, with scum everywhere you turn. I use the word 'civilized' carefully, because even that is debatable nowadays. Can monkeys ever be classed as 'civilized' ?

It has pockets of Third World countries living in it. Mosside in Manchester, for example.
Bolton is a dump. Bradford too. Rochdale? Then there's lovely Liverpool. "Now calm down, calm down".
Cultural capital of the UK, my arse.

Don't get me started on Glasgow. It's the knife-crime capital of the world - greater than any African country. A disgusting horrible place to live. They deep-fry Mars bars up there, for God's sake!

[nodric]

I'm a permie with expat status, ie non-resident, so my taxes are (luckily) rather low. I work for a bodyshop company pretending to be a consultancy, so I have the best of the two worlds: permiedom security and contractor lifestyle.

As a matter of fact, non-resident means nothing. I only have an account with 200 Euros in my home country, but I am still considered to have my centre of economic interest abroad, which is rubbish.

Hey Mark,

The body shop masquerade is something I discuss in the thread about a contractor owned ManCo. It’s a good ruse, and if you’re careful works well. The difference between a ManCo and a Body Shop hiding a ManCo is usually the latter pays taxes somewhere, and the former tries to avoid, nay evade them.

However, the Body Shop, or better still the Consultancy is the way to go. In my opinion it’s the future for contracting in high tax regimes. Early feedback from Deloitte suggests this could be workable, and avoid MSC and other avoidance legislation in the UK. If you draw a ‘small’ salary, and dividends as a shareholder, you avoid MSC. I intend to write more on this on the other thread.

The rules for ‘residency etc’ are as written, but I agree the interpretation of them is open to abuse depending on the arguments made to the local authorities, and who is making those arguments. Just be pleased it’s not Germany or the UK.

[nodric]

For what remotely sane purpose would the UK media wish to misportray their own country as a drug-ridden, knife-wielding, gun-toating, rapist-laden of a country, to not only their own people, but to the rest of the world too?

Now everyone, let's try and stay on topic. If we want to debate the best and worst of Europe, let's start another thread

Yes, I was at it too

[markinbrussels]

I have never in all my life read so much bull-tulip as that last sentence. Brussels is one of the safest places I've ever been to. Britain is a tulip-hole. London is tulip-hole capital. Get a grip man! :

If Brussels is such a lovely and safe place, then explain to me why the Belgians
have voted with their feet: nearly 50% of the 1.1 millions or so inhabitants are
foreign-born. Belgians live in the suburbs, not in Brussels proper.

BTW, over here we don't have Russian millionaires wanting to buy property.

OTOH, London is 8x bigger than Brussels, so expect 8x trouble. This being said,
if you avoid Londonistan and Little Jamaica and can afford it, there are very
nice and pleasant neighborhoods.

Britain is the worst country in the entire 'civilized' world. It has NOTHING to offer, with scum everywhere you turn. I use the word 'civilized' carefully, because even that is debatable nowadays. Can monkeys ever be classed as 'civilized' ?

:

Most countries in the "civilized" world have been ruined by Cultural Marxists (socialism,
feminism, immigrant rights, gay rights, etc) and Britain is no exception.

Nevertheless, I still see many of what Britain has to offer:

1. lower taxes, you work mainly for yourself not for the state
2. better job and business opportunities
3. free markets, economic liberalism
4. meritocracy, no career progression here if you are not Flemish
5. good TV
6. good quality papers. TV and papers in Belgium are rubbish.
7. affordable housing (outside London mainly)
8. good customer service
9. cheaper cost of living, go to Tesco, everything is cheaper than in any Belgian supermarket
10. a democratic society where you can ask your MP. Who is my MP here, I don't have a clue.
11. politicians are accountable, issues are openly discussed.
12. political stability. It took 3 days to form a Coalition government. In Belgium it's been
2 months and counting.
13. a common sense of decency. More charities than elsewhere. A patriotic people who
cherish its heritage.

Etc.

Granted. The UK has serious issues. Too much booze. Too many chavs and hoodies. Too many
hostile immigrants.

But still a very good place to live. Why do you think all those afghans in Calais want to
cross the Channel? If Britain was such an awful place, they would stay in France!

[Lycanthrope]

If Brussels is such a lovely and safe place, then explain to me why the Belgians
have voted with their feet: nearly 50% of the 1.1 millions or so inhabitants are
foreign-born. Belgians live in the suburbs, not in Brussels proper.

That's easy - it's too expensive for the natives to live here. Brussels house-prices a out of the reach of most Belgians. The street I live on must be 85% European Commission employees...

I've lived here for 11 years and I think Brussels is a lovely city, I've never felt remotely threatened. You can go out for a beer in the city centre until the early hours of the morning and walk about without being harassed and without gangs of drunk youths hanging on every corner. I see the UK on the BBC news and all I know is that I'd hate to go back, it's so much more relaxed and cosmopolitan here.

[Sergeant Murphys Cosh]

Belgium vs. Monkey Island

If Brussels is such a lovely and safe place, then explain to me why the Belgians have voted with their feet: nearly 50% of the 1.1 millions or so inhabitants are
foreign-born. Belgians live in the suburbs, not in Brussels proper.

House prices are cheaper. Better to bring up kids in the burbs that in a dirty city centre.
Still, more than 50% stayed, according to your stats.

Surely London has a high %age of immigrants too. Most British-born live outside of London.

OTOH, London is 8x bigger than Brussels, so expect 8x trouble. This being said,
if you avoid Londonistan and Little Jamaica and can afford it, there are very
nice and pleasant neighborhoods.

But if you can't afford it, it's the East end for you.....

Most countries in the "civilized" world have been ruined by Cultural Marxists (socialism, feminism, immigrant rights, gay rights, etc) and Britain is no exception.

Are you a bigot Mark?

Nevertheless, I still see many of what Britain has to offer:

1. lower taxes, you work mainly for yourself not for the state

Oh come on. Everywhere except Sweden has lower taxes than Belgium. You'll have to do better than that.

2. better job and business opportunities

Do you live to work, or work to live? It's all subjective anyway. What you mean by 'better' ?
Britain is full of arrogant arse-holes who haven't got a clue what they're talking about, but just pretend that they do. Belgium isn't.

3. free markets, economic liberalism

Too broad to be able to know what you're talking about.

4. meritocracy, no career progression here if you are not Flemish

I wouldn't know, but then why do you or I care; we're contractors.

5. good TV

Sky and Freesat both transmit across Europe. You can get it via the internet too, if you know what you're doing. No TV licence needed when abroad either.

6. good quality papers. TV and papers in Belgium are rubbish.

Yes, The Sun and The Star have always been at the top of my list.

7. affordable housing (outside London mainly)

You what !?!

The quality of housing is very poor in Britain. Very low quality, high prices = Rip-off Britain.

8. good customer service

?

9. cheaper cost of living, go to Tesco, everything is cheaper than in any Belgian supermarket

But all the food in British supermarkets is either extremely fatty, or extremely sugary. And they bulk the chicken up with water to make more out of you.

You go & try a Tesco's salad bowl, and you'll see it's smothered with excess sweetened mayonnaise.
At least here, they give it to you in a packet and you can decide whether to increase your own heart attack risk, or not. In Britain, you have no choice.

The food in British supermarkets is much varied than in Belgium supermarkets, but it's not very good for you. You have to hunt for the healthy stuff.

On the other hand, restaurants in Britain are comparatively poor, but expensive.

(If after all that, you still want some UK food, you can just hop on the Eurostar/tunnel, you know, and bring it back. It's not that far away).

10. a democratic society where you can ask your MP. Who is my MP here, I don't have a clue.

Dunno. Have you tried to locate him/her? You could ask him about all the points you have a grievance with. Start with 'Why are taxes so high in this country?'

11. politicians are accountable, issues are openly discussed.

And why can't you do that in Belgium. Why don't you take the lead for once, instead of moaning about how others don't do it.

12. political stability. It took 3 days to form a Coalition government. In Belgium it's been
2 months and counting.

I fail to see the link between stability of a government, and a quick forming thereof.

13. a). a common sense of decency.
b). More charities than elsewhere.
c). A patriotic people who cherish its heritage.

a). Right. Now it think you've lost it. Monkeys do not have a concept of common decency.

b). Ok, what's that got to do with living in Britain? You can still contribute to a UK charity without having to live there.

c). You mean tattooed knife-wielding football hooligans who think an ASBO is a trophy, and who let the country down every time they step a foot abroad?

Or maybe you're talking about the Pagan hippies who trample Stone Henge every year?

It could be you mean the crooks (sorry, the highly respectable bankers) who work in the City and look after everyones' funds.



You forgot point 14. The fantastic national health system they've got there.

Jeez.

Granted. The UK has serious issues. Too much booze. Too many chavs and hoodies. Too many hostile immigrants.

But still a very good place to live.

Has it EVER been a good place to live? Rocketing house prices are fun when you own an expensive place. You can net a tidy sum if you're lucky.

Why do you think all those afghans in Calais want to cross the Channel? If Britain was such an awful place, they would stay in France!

Coz Britain was a soft-touch for benefits, that's why.

Do you think the average immigrant sat on the shores of Calais with a pipe & smoking slippers on, and said to his mate "You know what old chap, these French aren't such a bad bunch after all. Great wine and cheese. Let's skip Britain, and stay here instead".

No, they were after free hand-outs. That, and revenge no doubt, for the UK invading their country.






[Sorry for remaining off-topic Nodric. Just felt like a Friday afternoon rant].

[wogewwabbit]

paranoid android

Hi,

I am new to this forum, and also new to contracting. I have read this thread back and forth, I even printed some of it once to read it on the train . Ok, back-and-forth may be an exaggeration, but anyway, the point is that I still have questions in mind.
My situation is that I am working through my own one-person-plus-secretary UK Ltd, invoicing another UK Ltd (the agency), for Belgian sourced income. (I know, Belgian sourced income is fully taxable in Belgium, 183 days rule doesn't apply.) And this is where I stop writing and would prefer to go private with one of the gurus, to get some opinion or advice. I am not just a nervous newbie, but a rather paranoid nervous newbie. Nothing is really finalized yet in my situation, I could still go one way or the other, but I would like to know what I am risking.

[Boo]

(I know, Belgian sourced income is fully taxable in Belgium, 183 days rule doesn't apply.)

Belgium does have a 183 day rule like any other EU country, or do you mean you've been there longer that 183 days ?


Boo

[wogewwabbit]

Belgium does have a 183 day rule like any other EU country, or do you mean you've been there longer that 183 days ?

Hi,

No, I haven't been here for longer than 183 days, I've been here only for 15 days yet.

The 183 days rule only applies to *worldwide* income, as far as I know. If any part of my income is sourced in Belgium (and in my case it is 100% of the income), then that part is still fully taxable in Belgium, no matter how much time I spent in the country (this is why I said that the 183 days rule doesn't apply).

But I am pleased to be corrected if I am wrong.

[wogewwabbit]

What I would like to find out is that if I spend less than 183 days in Belgium, and I pay ALL my taxes to the UK for this period, is it going to be coveded by the Double Taxation agreement? I have read it somewhere, that NO, not automatically. If not automatically, then how (not automatically, but manually?) would it be possible?
If I get an E101, and register with Limosa, I think it will be clear from the beginning, that my income is sourced in Belgium. And Belgium will ask me to pay taxes. Do I just tell them that I paid taxes in the UK already? I really have doubts that they would accept that.
What I would like to get is some advice on this, or at least a contact of a good accountant in Belgium, who can tell me about the possible cases and outcomes. It is getting urgent for me, my accountant in the UK is starting to set up the company as fully taxable in the UK. Any advice would be much appreciated.