IR35 loses appeal case

[BrilloPad]

We need a united front in the contract market and you pointing out people are, in your opinion, disguised employees undermines the cause.

Do you mean the union that Mal keep banging on about and appears to be running?

If you expect to get any unity amongst contractors you will have an uphill task.

[Integrity]

Do you mean the union that Mal keep banging on about and appears to be running?

If you expect to get any unity amongst contractors you will have an uphill task.

Unity in the legal profession is controlled by the Law Society; rules that must be followed, and the way in which services are provided is heavily regulated. Same applies to accountancy. Essentially a practice certificate is required to undertake specific work.

Would business owners in the UK agree to such a code of conduct and a level of regulation? Could such a system be beneficial?

It is likely that if it was not supported by statutory instrument, it would push clients towards outsourcing abroad, and using suppliers that are not part of it.

[malvolio]

The PCG is not a union. It's also done more for you than you might realise. But if you're not a member, then you obviously need to find support where you can. You could consider joining of course...

One mantra we've always held to be true - "Organising contractors is like herding cats"...

[BrilloPad]

One mantra we've always held to be true - "Organising contractors is like herding cats"...

I was a member of the PCG for a year. I then joined MTM. I wanted to stay just for the forums - but there is no "PCG lite" membership.

I picked the cat up yesterday for a cuddle - he just turned round and clawed me. Some are just so ungrateful. Sound familiar?

Always the same where men are involved. If 50% of contractors were female it would be alot easier.

[The Lone Gunman]

Do you mean the union that Mal keep banging on about and appears to be running?

If you expect to get any unity amongst contractors you will have an uphill task.

No I dont mean a union although that may be nice. It would not be a union in the traditional sense.
I want to see us ALL stating the case that IR35 is ill conceived and poorly implemented and does not achive the original stated aim.
There are too many "I'm alright Jacks" out there who are perfectly willing to point the finger and say others are disguised employees.
Any of us that can be seen to be disguised employees are only so because HMG and HMRC invented a set of questions that define them as such. A set of questions that in many cases are irrelevant and do not take in the nature of modern businesses, needs and practices.

I also believe that IR35 is the thin end of a very large wedge. HMRC is playing a long game. They will keep chipping away untill they have case law that covers everybody, even those who currently are seen as legitimate businesses. They will keep tweeking IR35 untill it covers everybody.

Ranting again................ sorry.

[techno]

No I dont mean a union although that may be nice.

shall we call it the Computer Professional Union ?

[malvolio]

shall we call it the Computer Professional Union ?

Don't you start... We had a little debate about renaming it recently. Two of my suggestions were:

Federated Union of Contractors in the Knowledge Sector...
Contractors United (just don't open a North Thames branch)

but nobody liked the acronyms.

But seriously, though, representing and supporting Freelance contractors is what they do. If you need someone to fight your corner, it's not a bad place to start.

BrilloPad - People keep on about PCG-Lite. It would save around £40-£60 a year on subs, and screw up the way the insurance is supplied (we would, for example, be liable to the FSA). For the tiny amount of money involved, why not simply stick with basic membership at £120. If nothing else, it helps keeps the numbers up - and you might one day find yourself in need of expert, unbiased legal advice and support on some obscure subject... We continue to look at a way to run a non-member's forum if only because it would be a great way to get to talk to non-members and find out what they want, but there are some practical difficulties and more than a few legal ones.

[BrilloPad]

BrilloPad - People keep on about PCG-Lite. It would save around £40-£60 a year on subs, and screw up the way the insurance is supplied (we would, for example, be liable to the FSA). For the tiny amount of money involved, why not simply stick with basic membership at £120. If nothing else, it helps keeps the numbers up - and you might one day find yourself in need of expert, unbiased legal advice and support on some obscure subject... We continue to look at a way to run a non-member's forum if only because it would be a great way to get to talk to non-members and find out what they want, but there are some practical difficulties and more than a few legal ones.

I am still thinking about it - if I was not with montpelier I would definetly rejoin.

I have finally got the strength to chat to montpelier about the new scheme - I am going to see them on Monday. 2 years ago montpelier was right for me - but I need to rethink. Times change.

But I have spent years doing alot for other people - and got little gratitude except a warm glow inside. My decision will be based purely on what is best for me.

[BrilloPad]

No I dont mean a union although that may be nice. It would not be a union in the traditional sense.
I want to see us ALL stating the case that IR35 is ill conceived and poorly implemented and does not achive the original stated aim.
There are too many "I'm alright Jacks" out there who are perfectly willing to point the finger and say others are disguised employees.
Any of us that can be seen to be disguised employees are only so because HMG and HMRC invented a set of questions that define them as such. A set of questions that in many cases are irrelevant and do not take in the nature of modern businesses, needs and practices.

I also believe that IR35 is the thin end of a very large wedge. HMRC is playing a long game. They will keep chipping away untill they have case law that covers everybody, even those who currently are seen as legitimate businesses. They will keep tweeking IR35 untill it covers everybody.

Ranting again................ sorry.

Well I agreed with everything you said.

[techno]

Don't you start... .

Hey, I am a fully paid up brother pcgPlus