MSC, Accountant or Umbrella Company

[cartlidgea]

Like many other contractors who have posted on this site I am getting frustrated with the lack of transparency from the taxman as to which accountancy firms are classed as msc providers and exactly what accounting service I can use as a PSC owner.

Many accounting companies are advertising that they are 100% compliant with the new legislation and that they can offer PSC owners full support. Even on this site companies such as SJD and JSA are claiming to be 100% compliant as they are Accountants supplying limited services.

Yet after visiting the hmrc website I decided to email them using their 3 different contact email addresses to clarify this. I had 3 seperate replies all be it after a week. I described the fact that I was going to use an accountant and that I had my own PSC, controlled my own bank account, invoiced the client myself etc, but that I was going to use an accountant that offered like the 2 mentioned accountant firms above the facility to setup PSC companies, advise on company bank accounts, and could help me to work out my finances each week and this in their eyes was enough to state that they would consider these accountancy companies to be msc providers.

The point they made was that most accountants would be classed as msc providers but what counted was whether your company was considered to be dealing with this msc provider which is where the 5 bullet points come in. After further emails it seems clear to me the only way for me to avoid being caught under this act in their eyes is to allow an accountant to complete my year end tax returns and nothing else. If they calculate your monthly tax, do any kind of monthly calculation work for you will be classed as using an msc provider. This is complete rubbish as most companies use accountants to work out all of their finances.

Anyway to my point! Some contractors seem to be taking the umbrella cautious route but the other are setting up psc and choosing an accountancy firm and going for it. I really want to go down this route as obviously it gives a hugely better return. Is it worth the risk, I presume if you are found to be using an msc provider and can show proof that you didnt realise this is the case you would have to pay back the amount you should have paid in paye plus interest? I also presume the amount owed would be minus all the corporation tax, NI etc you paid through the psc in the first place. If so then it is worth the risk because if you get caught out, by the time you pay back the paye you owe you would be back to where you would have been if you had paid paye through an umbrella company or have I got this totally wrong?

Anyway many contractors are willing to risk all to use accountancy firms, what makes you so certain you will be okay doing this and not clobbered by the msc rule? Can you recommend which accountancy firm to use, many of you have recommended SJD and JSA is this because they post on this site or are they generally very good accountants. I had a quote from JSA and it was an extremely high take home from Umbrella and especially PSC has anyone had any issues using these guys or tax investigations? Is this the best company to go with I havent found that many other good psc companies, Manager looks good so does Carrington Group.

If not then can anyone recommend a good umbrella company I like Parasol, JSA and Carrington Group has anyone got any good or negative feedback about any of these.

I appreciate your feedback on this I know there is a hell of a lot of waffle here but I still havent decided what to do and my next pay check will be coming in soon. I cant get anything out of hmrc or trust what the accountancy companies are claimin so I am counting on your help

Thanks

[Sockpuppet]

DO A SEARCH. It's been covered already. ******* times.

[cartlidgea]

Which bit? Can you summarise mate?

[Gonzo]

Using an accountant to provide accountancy services for your company does not make you an MSC. Rather than take the umbrella route, you wil retain much more of your income if you start a Limited company and use a reputable accountant to simply provide accountancy services and advice.

HTH

[cartlidgea]

Thanks but where is the line drawn in the eyes of hmrc between an accountant helping you complete tax returns and them being considered being msc providers. HMRC have stated to me that even if an accountancy company as much as advertises to contractors that they can help them setup a psc, bank account, offer insurance or suggest they can give you the best return they are classed as an msc provider. This covers all accountancy companies I have seen on this site including the ones I want to use Manager, carrington, JSA etc they are all implicated one way or another.

So I say oh well and join one anyway the next question hmrc asks is are you involved with the msc provider. This is judged by exactly what service they provide to you, depending on how their fee is aquired, how they advise you in what dividends/tax you should pay etc. So how can you fully say if I go with any of the named accountancy companies above and just get them to manage my tax returns, payroll etc that I will definitely not be included in the msc law you cant as the new legislation covers for everything by not being exactly clear what implicates you or not. The five main check list statements they give to define an msc provider can be read in such a way no accountancy firm is safe. If someone can prove to me 100% an accountancy company is compliant I will join up tomorrow!

[cartlidgea]

Gonzo your confusing me mate on this part of the forum you advise me to go the accountancy route on the business forum you reckon i should be safe and go down the umbrella route? Which option have you picked and which company are you using whether an accountant or umbrella?

Thanks

[texto]

Gonzo your confusing me mate on this part of the forum you advise me to go the accountancy route on the business forum you reckon i should be safe and go down the umbrella route? Which option have you picked and which company are you using whether an accountant or umbrella?

Thanks

I think you are simply getting paranoid. Accountancy law was sneaked in at the last minute because all the MSC firms were trying to convert their clients to "managed" PSC. If you get an accountant to sort out your business, you should be fine.

You must remember to take out cover (eg PCG membership) in case an investigation is carried out by Inland Revenue. As long as you have complete financial control and you exercise financial control - you should be fine. Accountant can provide advice, bookkeeping, complete tax returns etc - that's what they are there for.

Just choose your accountant carefully.

[Bluebird]

Thanks but where is the line drawn in the eyes of hmrc between an accountant helping you complete tax returns and them being considered being msc providers.

This is the crux of the problem.

The HMRC don't know where the line is drawn, and where they do think it is drawn they cannot be confident of enforcing without a number of test cases going through the courts a-la-IR35.

My thinking is thatHMRC are being vague on purpose, all the rumour etc is helping them attain their solution without any expense - ie loads of contractors scared into going PAYE.

I think at some point the HMRC will look at the figures and make a decision of whether to go after Ltds using "accountants" via the MSC definition route - if they do so they alot of us will be stuffed, however if they don't then we're all fine. As I said even if they do go after us they still have to proce it in a court of law.

As you quite rightly said its a risk - whether it's one worth taking only you can answer...