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IR35: Planning for April 2021 – should I stay or should I go?

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    #51
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    OMG. I'm sure this has been explained yo you a number of times and is in the post above this one.

    its got nothing to do with you. Its on the role
    How many more times do we have to say.

    And I've also said many times people that don't know what they are talking about engaging with the client are making the it worse for themselves and everyone else.

    You'll only be in the same situation you are in right now. HMRC by default thinks you are inside so have been looking for people to investigate for decades. If you leave before the detonation then you'll just be the same.
    You've mitigated the risk nearly as far as you can so don't over think it and stress yourself out.
    Well excuse me for still being confused by all of this, it's not exactly easy to decipher and even HMRC do not understand their own legislation!


    You mention that we've discussed this on other thread and granted with have, however IIRC one point you raised was to leave before the determination is / was made. But on this thread you've said it makes little difference whether I leave before or after it's been made as I'd still be in the same boat. So which is it?

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      #52
      Originally posted by CompoundOverload View Post
      Well excuse me for still being confused by all of this, it's not exactly easy to decipher and even HMRC do not understand their own legislation!


      You mention that we've discussed this on other thread and granted with have, however IIRC one point you raised was to leave before the determination is / was made. But on this thread you've said it makes little difference whether I leave before or after it's been made as I'd still be in the same boat. So which is it?
      I did? If you could quote it I'd be happy to explain/rectify. It's a complex situation so apologies if I've posted contradicting info.

      If be surprised if that's exactly what I said. I might have indicated the levels of risk. If the client says its inside then whatever you do going forward will not change the problem that your previous work outside is at risk of being investigated. Nothing will change that. Leaving before means you won't be on an registers or proven to inside. Afterwards then you've a out then in label. Worthy of an investigation.

      To be fair also, the goal posts change and new info comes out so hard to keep current. I was quoted saying I'd stay at a gig I was on and go inside and fight it if I got found out. Definitely changed my mind on that as more info like the GSK letters came out.

      My worst fear is that after all these posts of fear mongering nothing happens and people might have been mislead. As Cojak keeps saying though, It's your decision but make sure you've got all the facts right first.
      Last edited by northernladuk; 5 October 2019, 22:11.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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        #53
        Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
        I did? If you could quote it I'd be happy to explain/rectify. It's a complex situation so apologies if I've posted contradicting info.

        If be surprised if that's exactly what I said. I might have indicated the levels of risk. If the client says its inside then whatever you do going forward will not change the problem that your previous work outside is at risk of being investigated. Nothing will change that. Leaving before means you won't be on an registers or proven to inside. Afterwards then you've a out then in label. Worthy of an investigation.

        To be fair also, the goal posts change and new info comes out so hard to keep current. I was quoted saying I'd stay at a gig I was on and go inside and fight it if I got found out. Definitely changed my mind on that as more info like the GSK letters came out.

        My worst fear is that after all these posts of fear mongering nothing happens and people might have been mislead. As Cojak keeps saying though, It's your decision but make sure you've got all the facts right first.
        Morning, I don't want to be searching threads to prove a point or cause friction but regardless it's very possible that leaving before an out then in determination puts a lot of people in a precarious position hence a lot of questions and scenarios have recently presented on this forum. It's very difficult to know what to do. Potentially people are having to make decisions based on their careers/ finances.

        One minute I think leave before determination and then the next I think what's the point as I'm marked either way, as you say (this is all hypothetical as no inside decision has even been made!) and may as well just see the contract out for an extra month.

        It's not worth relying on their word re no retro action because these are liars and no there is a lot of money to claim back.

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          #54
          One minute I think leave before determination and then the next I think what's the point as I'm marked either way
          I don't think we've ever said that have we? You've had a great deal of time spent on your questions and from what I see it's been explained in detail. How can you come to these simplistic and incorrect conclusions twice in the same post?

          Are you purposely not trying to grasp this properly?
          'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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            #55
            Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
            I don't think we've ever said that have we? You've had a great deal of time spent on your questions and from what I see it's been explained in detail. How can you come to these simplistic and incorrect conclusions twice in the same post?

            Are you purposely not trying to grasp this properly?
            On Page 1 Cojak suggests if your appetite for risk is very low then "consider whether to leave that client BEFORE 31st December 2019 (or you client's assessment date)"


            Many posters have reported getting e-mails along the lines of:
            "We are working towards early January 2020 at the latest to provide you of the SDS and if the determination of status impacts the way in which your PSC provides services." By the way....this was an e-mail from the agency not the client.

            That obviously means they're not going to be starting it in early January 2020......they'll be starting it some time soon. I feel it would take very wishful thinking to expect the assessors to consider what date someone's contract is due to end when identifying their population, possibly because the agency/client think there's a chance it might be getting extended again. So I think it's inevitable there'll be a day when they pick every contractor that is still in contract and produce an SDS, regardless of when the contract is due to end or whether the contractor leaves in the meantime. And like many posters have said, once they've produced it, you've got a bigger problem (if it's inside).

            So CompoundOverload, I feel you're right to be thinking through the possible scenarios that you are.
            Last edited by PTP; 6 October 2019, 15:34.

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              #56
              He does but he's not taking it in.
              'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

              Comment


                #57
                Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
                I don't think we've ever said that have we? You've had a great deal of time spent on your questions and from what I see it's been explained in detail. How can you come to these simplistic and incorrect conclusions twice in the same post?

                Are you purposely not trying to grasp this properly?

                Do you honestly think I'm doing this for shi!ts and giggles? If you do then you're a sick individual. This has given me nothing but sleepless nights for the past couple of weeks. I'm just trying to process what this means for me going forward, as you have said in this post whether I leave or not before the determination "you'll only be in the same situation you are in right now" and "If you leave before the detonation then you'll just be the same.". Seems conflicting. So if you leave before the determination and you're inside you're done for, if you leave after an inside determinatiob you're done for. So either way unless out/out it's a difficult position to know what to do as I've no idea how they will judge this. I'm out at the moment in time but a lot of places are caving as they don't want the responsibility.

                Feel free to not post if you're going post up condescending remarks, I've enough on my mind as it is!

                Comment


                  #58
                  Originally posted by PTP View Post
                  On Page 1 Cojak suggests if your appetite for risk is very low then "consider whether to leave that client BEFORE 31st December 2019 (or you client's assessment date)"


                  Many posters have reported getting e-mails along the lines of:
                  "We are working towards early January 2020 at the latest to provide you of the SDS and if the determination of status impacts the way in which your PSC provides services." By the way....this was an e-mail from the agency not the client.

                  That obviously means they're not going to be starting it in early January 2020......they'll be starting it some time soon. I feel it would take very wishful thinking to expect the assessors to consider what date someone's contract is due to end when identifying their population, possibly because the agency/client think there's a chance it might be getting extended again. So I think it's inevitable there'll be a day when they pick every contractor that is still in contract and produce an SDS, regardless of when the contract is due to end or whether the contractor leaves in the meantime. And like many posters have said, once they've produced it, you've got a bigger problem (if it's inside).

                  So CompoundOverload, I feel you're right to be thinking through the possible scenarios that you are.
                  I know what Cojak's thread has said and I was hoping to follow said steps ie wait to leave before 31st December (which is ironically when I leave anyway). However, having been told a decision is to be made in 4 weeks (which is also my notice period) I'm hard pressed to get out of there before any decisions are made. But like Northenlad has said, I'll only be in the same position as I am now. So how can you stick or twist as you are going to have an X on your back either way as I'm unable to get out of there quick enough to not get a determination and if I hang around waiting for it and it's negative then I'm again stuffed. I know I'm repeating myself and doing everyone's head in but it's a naff position to be in.

                  Easy to say I dont get it and I'm not understanding it but I think a lot of people are in the same position and this has been sprung on me sooner than I had expected as was hoping judgements would be made in Jan.

                  Comment


                    #59
                    But like Northenlad has said, I'll only be in the same position as I am now
                    I still dont think I did and I also thought I'd clarified a few posts ago?
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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                      #60
                      Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
                      I still dont think I did and I also thought I'd clarified a few posts ago?
                      I've gone back and checked your posts again and the below is what you have responded, sorry was posting on phone over weekend so may have overlooked a few of your comments.

                      The below is what you have mentioned and it makes more sense, again thanks for all the posts and time spent on this, it's appreciated!

                      If be surprised if that's exactly what I said. I might have indicated the levels of risk. If the client says its inside then whatever you do going forward will not change the problem that your previous work outside is at risk of being investigated. Nothing will change that. Leaving before means you won't be on an registers or proven to inside. Afterwards then you've a out then in label. Worthy of an investigation.

                      So it's pretty clear i should get out of there before this determination is presented to me.
                      Last edited by CompoundOverload; 7 October 2019, 08:08.

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